Circus church.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    What would you all think about having a circus to attract more kids to come to Sunday school.

    How about we watch the football game on the big screen and then have a service at half time?

    Why don't we have treadmills in the auditorium so that people can burn off the calories while they worship?

    Why not show a thought provoking movie rather than have a sermon? That would probably get a lot of people to come.

    Wait, let's just have a concert in place of the corporate singing of praise to God!

    Can you prove that ANY of these things would be wrong from the Bible?
     
  2. Linda64

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    Why don't you be the first to prove what you are saying is from the Bible?

    Certainly you must be joking?:tonofbricks:
     
  3. tinytim

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    Done the football thing...
    Maybe you can't prove these to be wrong, but certainly unwise.

    For instance the concert instead of corporate singing is unwise, because worship is supposed to be participatory.. not just sitting there watching.

    The Bible says to preach.. so to get rid of it would be wrong.

    I like the treadmills idea... that would at least keep them from sleeping... :laugh: (not!)

    A once a yr circus/blockparty would not be a bad idea.
     
  4. LeBuick

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    God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    I guess if you can do the others and keep God the focus of the service with the understanding that He is worthy of all praise???
     
  5. menageriekeeper

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    What would you all think about having a circus to attract more kids to come to Sunday school.

    Does our yearly Fall Festival count?

    How about we watch the football game on the big screen and then have a service at half time?

    This usually occurs on Super Ball Day.

    Why don't we have treadmills in the auditorium so that people can burn off the calories while they worship?

    Well I don't about treadmills, but our church has a walking track built above the gymnasium and I gotta tell you, some good praying has gone on up there!

    Why not show a thought provoking movie rather than have a sermon? That would probably get a lot of people to come.

    We had movies all the time on Sunday evenings when I was a kid. Couldn't tell you though, the last time our church has had one.

    Wait, let's just have a concert in place of the corporate singing of praise to God!

    Do Fifth Sunday night singings count?

    Can you prove that ANY of these things would be wrong from the Bible?

    Why would anyone want too????
     
  6. Dale-c

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    Actually, I am quite serious.
    But I sure don't promote any of these activities in church.
    I am trying to show a point that if you do not believe in the regulative principle of worship, (discussed in J.Ds thread) then anything not prohibited in ok.

    For what it is worth, I am not opposed to any of these things outside of the public worship.
     
  7. J.D.

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    Linda, for clarification, are you saying that you think the things he is proposing is wrong because he can not produce scripture which authorizes these events?
     
  8. annsni

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    We do a fair at the end of VBS! Does that count? LOL!

    Treadmills.....hmmm.......we can probably even make it bikes and have them power the church for the day! Wow - what a great idea!
     
  9. Dale-c

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    As in had your service at half time? Don't you find that idolatrous?

    You can't find them wrong unless you believe the RPW. If your goal is attracting a crowd and not obedience to God then it may not even be unwise if your community will come to 'church" because of it.

    Why unwise? If it is not wrong and it will pack the church building, what is unwise about that?
    If worship is supposed to be "participatory" why is it "supposed" to be that way?
    If the Bible commands it then it is wrong, not just "unwise"

    Totally agreed!

    Hmmm....maybe not such a bad idea lol.


    On a week day separate from corporate worship as a means of fellowship and clean entertainment for believers? Absolutely![/QUOTE]

    In church on Sunday morning? Absolutely not!
     
  10. Dale-c

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    I don't care what you do at VBS during the week. Just don't bring it into Church on Sunday.
     
  11. LeBuick

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    Better plug the PA in a different circuit... :laugh:
     
  12. Dale-c

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    Does our yearly Fall Festival count?

    If it is an activity during the week that does not interfere with Church on Sunday then no problem at all. Can I come? Sounds fun!

    This usually occurs on Super Ball Day.

    This is sad. Putting football first and trying to squeeze God's worhip in the middle? I have seen it happen.

    Well I don't about treadmills, but our church has a walking track built above the gymnasium and I gotta tell you, some good praying has gone on up there!

    Sure, no problem during the week outside of worship.
    I need to do a little more of that. I am getting out of shape.

    We had movies all the time on Sunday evenings when I was a kid. Couldn't tell you though, the last time our church has had one.

    I won't be too dogmatic about this one. As long as this was not a worship service and you DID have your proper worship service in the morning then I would not make a big deal. We did this in December for our new years eve party. I probably would not have had the movie myself but it was not a big enough deal to make an issue over.

    Do Fifth Sunday night singings count?

    This sounds like a lot of fun actually! I have thought about doing something like this: just not as part of our normal worship service.
    But I have thought about doing it!

    Why would anyone want too????

    I can't remember what I asked because I deleted my text already!
     
  13. menageriekeeper

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    now wait minute, Dale. In one answer above you say it's okay to have a Sunday evening movie so long as we had worship in the morning and then you say it's putting football before God to fellowship as a church watching the game and having a devotion on Sunday evening though we had worship just that morning. You got a bit of a double standard going on.

    You aren't by any chance dogmatic that folks should worship twice on Sunday and then again on Wednesday are you?

    (I personally believe one should maintain an attitude of worship all the time. Doesn't mean I can't watch the Braves and pray for a better season. :eek: )
     
  14. rbell

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    Isn't the "regulative principle" (a term never found in Scripture, for those of you keeping score at home) a bit arrogant? As if we know every little detail of how worship was conducted in AD 30.

    I love when arguments are taken to ridiculous conclusions.
     
  15. J.D.

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    The term is not found, but the teaching is there: "they that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth". No other way, just spirit and truth. Now as for that term "youth pastor" which we both agree does not appear in the Bible, can you show me the teaching of it? It seems a bit arrogant to me that one would asssume to prescribe to God how He will be worshipped. And we have a lot of details on how worship was conducted in the days of the apostles (if that's what you mean by "AD 30") - it's called THE NEW TESTAMENT.
     
  16. Linda64

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    Posted: 05/08/2007
    The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.

    If you don't see this, you won't believe it. This is a picture of Methodist Pastor Jim Lavender riding an elephant during an outdoor church service.

    [​IMG]

    Oh wait, it gets worse. Advent Lutheran Pastor Rick Hartmann of Melbourne, FL. (aka, Richarto the Clown) attempts to justify dressing like a clown to lead communion by stating that "clown" means "clod" (buffoon), and God used a clod (of dirt) to make man. Therefore, if God can use a clod (of dirt), He can use a clod (a circus clown) to do good. Got it?

    Furthermore, Richarto the Clown (aka, Pastor Rick Hartmann) claims the New Testament says we are supposed to be servants, and the word for servant means "clown." Actually, it doesn't. And even if it did, it is preposterous to think that pastors are supposed to dress like BimBam for church.

    Hold on, Pastor Richarto's word study isn't over. He claims we are to be "fools" for Christ. Therefore, we should put on face paint and honk horns during worship. Sorry Pastor, each word for "fool" in the New Testament refers to intellect, wisdom and understanding… not wearing floppy shoes.

    But wait, there's more! Here is a picture of some Episcopalian priests holding up the elements for Clown Communion in New York City.

    [​IMG]

    Just what in the world is going on here? How does a grown man conclude with a straight face, "I think it would be a good idea to dress like Wiggles for church?" There are three reasons.

    1. Ecclesiology. These pastors believe that the Sunday church service is to be used to draw "seekers." For starters, only God seeks. Second, church should be an assembling of the saints, not a tool to gather people who want to see ChooChoo.
    2. Holiness. These pastors must not understand that our God is a consuming fire. When Isaiah was in the presence of God, he said, "My mouth is unclean." Isaiah experienced first hand that God is high, holy and inapproachable light. What must Pastor Cornflake think God is like?
    3. Sola Scriptura. The reformers believed that "faith came from hearing and hearing from the Word of God (Rom.10:17)." Modern church growth methods apparently forget that verse as they believe we must entertain people into the Kingdom. Clown pastors have a low view of Scripture.

    John Wesley said, "Ignorance of the nature and design of the Law is at the bottom of most religious mistakes." It could be argued that these ministers do not understand the Law of God.

    Romans 7:12-22 tells us that the Law of God is a perfect representation of God's character. If these ministers understood that God is so high and holy that we cannot even covet our neighbor's property, perhaps they would not be so quick to turn the Lord's Supper into a silly gimmick.

    Paul warned the Corinthian Christians to examine themselves prior to participating in communion. Some were weak, sick and even dying because they were not. We can only imagine how God feels about clown communion.

    To put this into perspective, imagine a secular business using a clown to lure people into their establishment in hopes that the poor, unsuspecting clown seeker will purchase their product. Oh wait, car dealers and McDonalds already do. Unfortunately, Jesus is neither an automobile nor a hamburger.

    Somebody tell that to Pastor Chuckles. Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com

    By Todd Friel
     
  17. Joe

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    We have done a few of these- A Sunday church service was cancelled so everyone could watch the Superbowl on the big screen in church. We went home but I heard it was a success. They had free pop -corn and sodas, lots of food. Many folks from the community showed up.

    We also had a Sunday where the church watched the Jesus film? or something like that in place of the service. I didn't attend that time.

    It's nice to do something different once in a while
     
  18. David Lamb

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    I don't know about "prove", but if such things were right (in the context of worship services), I would expect to find at least one example of a first century A.D. equivalent in the bible. They didn't have TVs or films (movies), but they did have sports, games, drama, and concerts in those days.
     
  19. Rex77

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    Ps 29:2 Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.
     
  20. webdog

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    Why waste so much time asking stupid questions? :D
     

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