civil rights

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by JebMartin, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. JebMartin

    JebMartin
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    Do any of you think it is time for a new civil rights movement in this country? Do you remember a time when people of many different faiths and backgrounds stood up to rogue courts and told them we would not accept their judgements because they did not reflect the rights guarenteed us by the constitution? I am thinking of course of the civil rights movement of the 60's and 70's. But what about a civil rights movement of this new millenium? The ACLU, The People for the American Way, the People for the Seperation of Church and State, have sought to restrict our religious civil liberties in the same manner that civil liberties were once restricted to black people. The very foundation this nation was founded on acknowledges the existance of God. Read for yourself the Declaration of Indepepndance. Our rights only exist by the existance of a Creator. Our civil laws were based on the Ten Commandments, which are inscribed in the stone walls of the Supreme Court building. The fact that judges and many other civil authorities believe they can restrict people who work in schools and government from expressing Judeo-Christian ideas is absurd. Telling a boy scout troop that they cannot meet on military bases, as one court justb did, because they acknowledge "God" is like telling someone they cannot sit at a lunch counter because they are black. It is time to resist. I believe we need a leader and movement every bit as strong and as public as that which stood up to the courts and local and state governments as they did 4 decades ago. What do you think?
     
  2. ScottEmerson

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    Comparing the "plight" of Christians and what happened 40 years to men and women such as Rosa Parks, Fred Shuttlesworth, Dr. King, and all of the minorities in general is complete nonsense. To even imply such a thing shows a complete lack of ignorance to what these people went through. In no way are we the object of disdain and segregation, and I'm rather offended that someone would make such an association.
     
  3. The Galatian

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    Actually, it is analogous to what happened 40 years ago. I can remember segregationists shouting that their rights were being violated when they were forced to let blacks vote.

    Likewise, some find the idea that groups being supported by public funding can't discriminate on the basis of religion, to be a violation of their rights to discriminate against people who don't believe the way they do.

    They have a right to discriminate. They just don't have a right to expect the government to help them out in doing it.

    It's the same message; "you're violating my right to violate the rights of other people!"
     
  4. ScottEmerson

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    Agreed, Galatian. Agreed. Anyone remember Bull Conner?
     
  5. JebMartin

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    Letme first explain what both the constitution and the 1964 civil rights act spell out. Our first ten amendments to the constitution were given to us, as the framers said, by the "Creator" and "Nature's God." The 1964 civil rights act recognizes religious faith as a civil right whereby a person cannot be discriminated against. When I hear a person say that one civil right is more important than another, I am offended. I believe the rule of law, which holds all people as equal and all of their rights as equal is also offended. Therefore, denying a man to display his faith because he is a public employee is the same as denying him a seat at a lunch counter because he is black. Civil rights are what they are, including religious rights. Thank God our founding fathers had the wisdom to recognize these great truths, that we are equal before God and the law. The violation, therefore, of our rights is also equal in its' egregiousness. In a nation founded on the existance of God, where our coins are minted with "In God we trust," teacheres in public schools are reprimanded for saying "God bless you" to a student who sneezes. Teachers in public schools are ordered that they may not wish a child a "Merry Christmas" in that it may be deemed offensive. A teacher in California, who wanted to show kids historical evidence to our founders' recognition of God, by providing the Declaration of Independance and George Washington's Proclamation of Thanksgiving in 1789, was sued and subsequently censored by his employer. Denying a man a cup coffee because he is black is a violation of his civil rights. Denying a man employment because he recognizes God in the same way our founding fathers did,is a violation of his civil rights. The constitution sees both men and both violations as equal. Time for a new movement to protect our oft violated civil rights. Enough said.
     
  6. ScottEmerson

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    Other people also have the rights for their religious freedom not to be infringed upon. If Islam was the dominant religion, would you not feel oppressed if everyone around you forced Allah down your throat?

    I've never heard (and I googled it, too) of a teacher being reprimanded for saying "God bless you," and I'd love to see a news article or other reputable source that confirms this.

    As far as "Merry Christmas" - this is another urban legend, as the courts have ruled that this is acceptable. From http://www.rouseandassoc.com/Article.htm

    As far as Steven Williams is concerned (the one who got in trouble for the Declaration of Independence), I fully believe that he will be allowed back at the school. This one instance is in no way anything near what happened in the 60's to black Southerners.

    Has anyone in America been denied employment because he or she was a Christian? (Again, please show some proof).

    Christianity is a majority religion in America. Our president and many of our congressional representatives and senators claim Christianity. Again, it's absolutely nothing like what was happening in places such as Alabama in the 1960's.
     
  7. Gina B

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    Martin, it's long overdue! People are so blinded to violations it ain't funny. I think for the most part people don't want to believe it exists until if affects them personally. If it happens to someone else they eye them suspicially and usually doubt it, thinking there must be more to the story because we're a nation enthralled with the government. It's hard to believe they would do injustice.
    America needs to wake up. America needs to quit believing that large scale corruption doesn't happen in our justice system. America needs to start following the money trail in many situations and find out who's benefitting.
    Most of all, America needs to QUIT handing more and more power over to the government and take more responsibility for the safety and welfare of their friends and neighbors and community.
    Gina
     
  8. The Galatian

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    I know I don't have a problem saying "God bless you" to a student. But then, I don't try to get pushy about it.

    Those urban legends are often very difficult to substantiate.
     
  9. billwald

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    Time for a "BE AMERICAN" movement. Prior to WW2 people came here to become Americans. Screw your Old Country. Be an American.
     
  10. Pennsylvania Jim

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    JebMartin makes good points, and draws an interesting analogy. Congress needs to do its job, and throw out judges who don't understand even the most basic things about American liberty.
     
  11. Daisy

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    Jeb Martin will have a point when we have "Christian Only" water fountains and have Christians giving up their seats at the back of the bus when all the nonChristian seats in the front are taken. When was the last time a Christian was lynched around here for whistling at a nonChristian woman?
     
  12. poncho

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    Jeb,

    People won't listen to you if you continue to speak of things like civil rights, individual liberty and the responsiblity ALL OF US as Americans, whether Christian or whatever have to each other in protecting those rights.

    Most folks believe that it's the governments job to protect you, your loved ones and your rights. They are ready to let the government assume all responsibilty for them so they can relax and watch football without any of the undue stress that real freedom causes.

    This is just my opinion as others on this board will no doubt try to remind me, but, as far as this government goes...they are untrustworthy, greedy, drunk with power and they control most all the mainstream media.

    In the last two Presidential elections it became apparent that our republic no longer functions. It's all an illusion now. We have one party with two heads that act like they oppose each other's policies. But, if you have an open mind (not brainwashed by the mainstream media) you can easily see where in the last thirty years or so there has been a continuity of policies by both "parties" to restrict individual liberty, grant more and more power to the federal government and "socialize" America.

    We're being boiled alive, the water is getting hot now, but the dutiful little frogs will deny it to their death.

    Pa Jim, you'll say vote em out. Ordinarily I would agree but it seems to me that with the advent of E-VOTING and the heavy investments and connections to the "manufacturers" and media like Clear Channel Communications that the Republicans share, and the last two Presidential elections the time to "vote em out" has come and gone we can't vote them out because we didn't vote them in!

    But Jeb...don't stop posting. Maybe just maybe someone will listen a little, notice a little, and see a little that would convince them of their condition in the pot that is about to boil and jump out before they are well done.
     
  13. Pennsylvania Jim

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    It's still possible to vote them out. The problem is that very few people want to. They complain about the direction of the government, and then turn on you like a mad dog if you suggest voting for someone who actually wants to change it.
     
  14. JebMartin

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    These claims are not mere "urban legends". My sister works for the Philadelphia scjool district, she has twice been verbally reprimanded-once for saying "God bless you to a student who sneezed and again for wishing another a "Merry Christmas". Many people are blind to the fact that the NEA is an atheistic, liberal organization, which along with groups like the ACLU, intimidates schools into an atheistic agenda. Cash-strapped shool districts cannnot afford to fight ridiculous lawsuits, so they appease the filers of these suits by folding to their demands. The same is true when it comes to local governments who are sued over the same issue. In Tennessee, a school board is being sued for not wanting to tell students that evolution is an absolute fact, as the ACLU insists it is, and having them consider they may have been created. The ACLU insist that telling school children they may have been created is an endorsement of religion and therefore unconstitutional. Some liberal judge just may agree with them. The Declaratiopn of Independance, which states that we are created equal by God and therefore endowed with inaliable rights, will thus be unconstitutional. And for those of who seem so unnerved by recognititon of God by our government and conservatives, you should research some and learn that our laws are based upon the Ten Commandments, which is why they are inscribed on the wall of the Supreme Court building.
     
  15. The Galatian

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    Hey Jeb, I'd love to see some documentation for those claims.

    Nothing personal, but we don't have any way of knowing whether you made it up or not.

    Don't you think it's funny that the stories never have any substantiation?
     
  16. ScottEmerson

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    Then e-mail this to your sister. The US branch of the judiciary has ruled:

    School districts may not ban teachers and students from saying "Merry Christmas." The Supreme Court has stated that teachers and students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Cmty. Sch. Dist., 393 U.S. 503, 506 (1969)(holding that the wearing of armbands by students to show disapproval of Vietnam hostilities was constitutionally protected speech). Under the direction of former President Clinton, U.S. Secretary of Education Richard Riley issued guidelines concerning religious discussion of students, which stated, "Students therefore have the same right to engage in ...religious discussion during the school day as they do to engage in other comparable activity." U.S. Dept. of Educ., Religion and Public Schools, Archived Information, Guidelines, available at Http://www.ed.gov/Speeches/08-1995/religion.html (last modified Jan. 26, 2001) Teachers also have the right to greet students with the words "Merry Christmas," in spite of their role as agents of the state. In order to violate the Establishment Clause, a teacher would have to use her authority to promote religion to impressionable youth. See School Dist. of Abington v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963). Saying a simple greeting that people commonly use in December does not rise to a state endorsement of religion.
     
  17. rsr

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    Jeb said:

    "Our civil laws were based on the Ten Commandments, which are inscribed in the stone walls of the Supreme Court building."

    How are our civil laws based upon the Ten Commandments? They are based primarily upon the English Common Law, which is based upon Anglo-Saxon traditions as amended by Norman accretions.

    "Our first ten amendments to the constitution were given to us, as the framers said, by the "Creator" and "Nature's God."

    The language you refer to is from the Declaration of Independence, not from the Constitution, which nowhere mentions God.

    I do not doubt that officious bureaucrats fall all over themselves and make themselves look stupid in trying to prevent anything they wrongly think will cause lawsuits, but they need to be set right.

    The Stevens case in California, if everything is as it has been presented, is open and shut in favor of the teacher, even for the 9th Circuit.
     
  18. JebMartin

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    You need to brush up on your world history and find out why our laws and culture are so much different than many others. Laws in traditional Western society are based on christian value systems i.e. the ten commandments.You should also understand that the first ten amendments to the constitution are the inaliable rights, granted us by God and not man, that are referred to by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independance. Therein lies the connection.
     
  19. JebMartin

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    I suppose I should say "Checkmate". It is very telling when a person will no longer reply to your resoning and logic but must resort to personal attacks.
     
  20. ScottEmerson

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    Do you have any documentation yet?
     

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