Classic Hymns VS CCM music in church

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by preach97, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. preach97

    preach97
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    So hear is the question;

    What is best in church services, classic hymns(Revive Us Again, Old Rugged Cross, Nothing but the Blood, etc) or CCM music (Awesome God, Shout to the Lord, etc)?

    I believe that the classics have worked for years and we should be like Jeremiah and ask for the old paths and not bring the CCM into our churches.

    Just a thought.
     
  2. Eric B

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    Jeremiah is not pushing just any "old paths". Something is not wrong just because it is different from older tradition or styles. Of course, the argument then moves to the supposed sin of modern society compared to the righteousness of the past, but this just ignores the sin of the past, and once again puts something old (to our perspective) as the standard without any biblical proof.
     
  3. Joshua Rhodes

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    Why must this always be relegated to an "either/or" discussion?

    At my church it's a "blended/balanced" format, with old and new hymns, old and new "worship choruses" and some gospel songs also. I've found in my ministry, that's what works best for me. Nothing But the Blood is awesome... and so is In Christ Alone. The Old Rugged Cross is great... as well as Lord, Reign in Me. We use it all.
     
  4. whatever

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    I prefer the blended approach too. We have something to offend everyone. [​IMG]
     
  5. rbell

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    Preach,

    If "older is better" then ditch the 1800's stuff and go to plainsong music of the 16th Century, or 3rd century chants.

    Tonight's lineup for us: "All Day," "Shout Unto God," "How Great Thou Art/How Great is Our God," and one of our students has put music to "Phos Hilaron" (Hail Gladdening Light), possibly the oldest hymn we have outside of the scripture itself (2nd century or so).

    Old, REALLY old, and new...God has blessed it, and we're gonna sing it tonight.

    More replies later.
     
  6. SpiritualMadMan

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    During the 70's the Jesus People got some *really* old songs...

    They were called Psalms! :D

    They predated and were more scriptural than any hymns... [​IMG]

    I'll have to dig out my marked KJV and get a list of the psalms we used to sing...

    What is strange, though, is how many detractors there were against born-again former hippies singing Psalms instead of hymns!

    Now, what's with that?

    It never changes, does it? It remains far easier to defend and support that which is familiar...

    Mike Sr.
     
  7. Gib

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    I think we should go back and do it like Jeremiah.
     
  8. tinytim

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    I like blended also... especially when you find a similar thought through a hymn and CCM.

    I have combined "How Great thou art" with "Above all" people that don't like CCM have gotten a blessing when they are sung together.
     
  9. preach97

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    I am not saying take it to the extreme. I think though you would have to agree that some of the "newer" stuff coming out in the CCM realm is way out there. So I guess what you have to ask is, instead of wondering is this song too way out in left field why not just stick with the "older" songs that have been tried and proven by generations.
     
  10. standingfirminChrist

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    The music being played 50 years ago was not as sensual as the music we hear in many of the contemporary churches today.

    Seek ye out the old paths and walk therein.
     
  11. Brice

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    Do you mind expanding on this? I don’t agree or disagree with you, but I’m not sure what you mean. Are you referring to the people or the music? (I may not be able to respond right away, but I’ll get back as soon as I can) God bless and good to see you around.
     
  12. FBCPastorsWife

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    Amen and AMEN!!!
     
  13. rbell

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    OK, addressing your concerns...

    "Newer CCM" stuff...I really don't think I can answer you there. Music is so broad in its expressions...what I consider traditional you might consider CCM, or vice-versa. "Way out in left field"--I guess I need you to clarify. Are you referring to musical style/genre, theology, singability, or something else? Some issues have no right/wrong component--such as a song's vocal range--yet that issue can affect whether a song is well-received by the individual church body. Other issues are a little thornier, but I'll go ahead and put it out there and listen for the inevitable responses: Scripture does not specifically condemn genres of music. Worship music should be God-centered and God-focused. Beyond that, is in the realm of taste and style. Our Christian brothers from the 1500's would not recognize anything your church or mine do musically. Stuff changes.

    Along that issue, much of "CCM music," much like a lot of Southern Gospel and other styles, is not really congregational worship music. So, that must be taken into account.

    Of course, following the "old paths" is important. But remember, our Bible tells us to "sing unto the Lord a new song" as well.

    My goal is to teach our kids the great hymns of the faith...there's a richness, heritage, and depth there I don't want them to miss (and believe it or not, many of them don't want to miss it either). But, God is also doing a new thing, and He's big enough to use new music to tell the old story.

    Preach97, since you used a specific example, I'll ask you to back it up. Let's take two of the songs you mentioned: What makes Nothing But the Blood a more appropriate song for worship than Shout to the Lord? I think they both rock. Give me a scriptural basis for your answer.

    A good night here...we started our three week series on "Giving God your Baggage." Seventeen new faces this evening...lots of contacts to make tomorrow. And our band's arrangement of "Hail Gladdening Light" was amazing. Now THAT'S a "good old song." Lyrics nearly 1800 years old--straight out of the word.
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

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    I have visited many churches in my 14 years of preaching, and am saddened to say that many have degraded to the world's standards.

    Dance and Drama teams prancing about on stage in a manner that is sensual, music that is sensual, feeding the flesh.

    Paul said of the body: O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this vile body?

    We are not to feed the fleshly lusts and desires. We are to walk in the Spirit, setting our affections on things above, not on things of this earth.

    When I see groups like Newsboys, Building 429, Sonic Flood, the list goes on and on, playing their rock and roll in the church, it saddens my heart.

    I see people in the church acting just like the world when they are attending a Led Zeppelin, ZZ Top, or Rolling Stones concert.

    The only difference? Gospel lyrics set to the worldly music. It is not the lyrics that are drawing them in, it is the music. And it is the music that will keep them.

    I often wonder if God puts in the earplugs when people are attending such services and praying to Him in the same hour.

    If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. Psalm 66:18
     
  15. rbell

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    LYRICS for comparative purposes:

    "Nothing but the Blood" (Words & Music: Ro­bert Low­ry, ~1876)

    What can wash away my sin?
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
    What can make me whole again?
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

    Refrain
    Oh! precious is the flow
    That makes me white as snow;
    No other fount I know,
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

    For my pardon, this I see,
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
    For my cleansing this my plea,
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

    Nothing can for sin atone,
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
    Naught of good that I have done,
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

    This is all my hope and peace,
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
    This is all my righteousness,
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

    Now by this I’ll overcome—
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
    Now by this I’ll reach my home—
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

    Glory! Glory! This I sing—
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
    All my praise for this I bring—
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

    Shout To The Lord
    (Darlene Zschech, Hillsongs music, 1996)

    My Jesus, My Savior, Lord there is none like you
    All of my days, I want to praise
    The wonders of your mighty love
    My Comfort, My Shelter, Tower of refuge and strength
    Let every breath, all that I am Never cease to worship you

    (Chorus)
    Shout to the Lord, all the earth
    Let us sing.
    Power and majesty, praise to the king.
    Mountains bow down and the seas will roar
    At the sound of your name
    I sing for joy at the work of your hands
    Forever I'll love you, forever I'll stand
    Nothing compares to the promise I have in You.

    Now Preach97, what makes Nothing But the Blood a more appropriate song for worship than Shout to the Lord? Give me your lyrical, artistic, aesthetic, and scriptural reasons for your arguments. (I'll lay my conclusions out here:) Both are great! Nothing But the Blood is probably more "New Testament" and didactic; Shout to the Lord is more "Psalmlike" and majestic. I use 'em both, and will continue to.

    What say you?
     
  16. rbell

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    SFIC, I respect your love for God and your devotion to the ministry, but once again, you have engaged in circular logic.

    Your view: SINCE music with a beat is evil, and the Bible tells us to avoid evil things, we should do so.

    My counterpoint: Prove your a priori statement. Where does the Bible say that the beat is evil? And exactly how do you determine, since all music has a beat, at what point does the beat become unregenerate? Is the downbeat of a 3 count in a fast 4/4 time sig evil? Is a ride cymbal evil? Or only the high hat? Would a 5/4 groove be evil? How about tympanis? Snare drums in a marching band? Snare drums in a praise band? "I'll Fly Away" makes most people clap their feet and stomp their feet. That's sensual--related to body reactions...but it's not wrong, is it?

    And SFIC, I'll say it again: even if we agree to disagree on music, it is not your place to say that someone reached in a contemporary setting is being "reached by the music" rather than God. That is not your call to make.

    You're awfully close to a gnostic approach. You come close to likening "Feeding fleshly lusts" with enjoying music. Just because something is enjoyable at a physical level does not mean it is sinful. If so, then I just managed to sin away a nice piece of chocolate cake.

    I'd make a lousy gnostic.

    SFIC, we don't agree much on the musical realm, but I know you have a heart for God. God bless, and send us some rain from MS if you don't mind. We're bone dry.
     
  17. standingfirminChrist

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    Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
     
  18. SpiritualMadMan

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    I am one of those that absolutely would not have a Drama or Dance team doing anything during a "normal" Worship Service...

    Perhaps at a special service where the Drama or Dance was illustrative...

    However, you might want to consider this before you get too down on expression in Worship...

    Exodus 15:20 Then Miriam the prophetess, Aaron's sister, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women followed her, with tambourines and dancing.

    Exo 15:21 Miriam sang to them:
    "Sing to the LORD ,
    for he is highly exalted.
    The horse and its rider
    he has hurled into the sea."

    I think this pretty much predates anything most churches are using? :D

    Opps! wait a minute... That *does* sound a bit like "Shout to the Lord"... [​IMG]

    Of course the old standby is, if it's good enough for King David...

    2 Samuel 6:13 And it was so, that when they that bare the ark of the LORD had gone six paces, he sacrificed oxen and fatlings.

    2 Samuel 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

    2 Samuel 6:15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.

    Was this in the Flesh?

    No, because it wasn't for show.

    It was done in the integrity of David's Heart as an Act of Worship Celebration...

    In fact one might say that God endorsed it, in *this* instance, by making Michal Barren...

    2 Samuel 6:16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

    ...

    2 Samuel 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

    Just because something makes you or me uncomfortable doesn't make it sinful or "in the flesh"...

    You have the right to be "uncomfortable"...

    You have the right to choose the Church you attend...

    Your church has the right, not to mention the responsibility, to set specific standards for their worship...

    But, I am concerned that the example God has set before us of Michal...

    Might be applied to some rather outspoken churches who despise in their hearts believers with a freer expression and form of Worship...

    I am not saying to start Worshipping like my church does...

    I am saying to watch the integrity of your heart when applying your own standards to others...

    Because...

    1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

    This also speaks to those of us who are "Free" in our worship...

    That we can be "out of order" if the integrity of our hearts is compromised by pride or the Flesh...

    Mike Sr.
     
  19. preach97

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    As far as the other issues this board has raised I will answer those later on in the day when I have more time to type, yet I could not resist on this one. If you look at the context of this verse and where it is found you will find that a massive parade/celebration was going on for the ark of the covenant. You will then find that King David was leading this parade. When the Bible said David danced before the Lord it was not a dance that you see these praise and worship dancers do. According to customs of that day, David was leading the parade with the same movements that a song leader would do in a church service.

    Still I say with Jeremiah, "Seek ye out the Old Paths" and I also stand with a little of grandma's wisdom, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
     
  20. PJ

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    We have a blend ...
     

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