Clergy and Politics

The pulpit is not a place for a bully to express his opinions without a time for differing viewpoints but rather a time to proclaim truth.

 

Hope you've made that clear to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton!

 

Then 'separation of church and state,' which has been preached in Baptist pulpits for 2 or 3 centuries, should not therein be preached "without a time for differing viewpoints." Is this your view?

 

Church Mouse, When a church is a "C-3" corporation and a University is a "C-3" corporation they are technically and legally the same. Whatdayaknow....the Lord's Church in the same boat as the humane society and the local wiccan (sp) society and our preachers have done it to get a benefit.
Thanks ------Bart

 

A college and a church may be legally the same, but they are not spiritually the same. There are many good reasons for a church to be incorporated. That does not change its spiritual nature.

As for preaching in the church, one of the great weaknesses of the church is that too many preach their own opinions rather than the word of God. It is not wonder the church is weak. We have people on both sides preaching political opinion when the Bible says not one word about the American political situation. Therefore, politics are not a valid subject for a church to be preaching. WE can and should address issues hte Bible talks about. We should not address issues hte Bible does not talk about.

 

As as been often pointed out, they do not now, nor have they ever, been the ones to say what a preacher can or cannot say. He can say whatever he likes from the pulpit. That is not restricted in any way.

What he may not be able to do is retain tax exempt status for the church while doing so. But those are entirely different issues.

I agree that there is unequal enforcement. I have long said that. Predominantly urban churches are hot beds of political activity during elections and it seems they are rarely challenged. They should be. But that does not change the law.

The IRS in no way dictates the message of any church.

 

I agree to a point.

Many pastors have said they cannot preach.... But I have always been one to say otherwise. Jonathan Edwards said othewrwise as well. But the congregation did not like it.

I have never been afraid to ask people to do ministry with me. Some have gotten mad. Some always have an excuse. Some deacons have actually told me they don't like witnessing and have actually told me to not call on them to pray in public too

If every pastor would call on people to do ministry with him we would have a very different church in America. Isn't that what the early church did? Why should we be any less with God? I believe most people in most churchers have been trained to do nothing and if they do something it has nothing to do with outreach but rather church beautification.

A few years back a pastor told me his church was dead and not growing. I asked him about his plan to do door to door evangelism. He told me he didn't have time for that. I told him I would lead him and show him how. He still did not want to. When he left another pastor came and the church started growing immediately because the new pastor did evangelism and ministry.

 

You are clear. You are just wrong.

Debatable, but irrelevant. God never declared the church to be free from taxes.

God is the one who controls political speech. If a pastor speaks on politics then he is sinning against God. He needs to be preaching the Bible, which does not address politics in any country, much less modern American.

No, it doesn't. I keep pointing this out to you, but you are not listening.

I don't tiptoe a bit. I preach the word.

They aren't.

Where did God say this?

 

Jesus addressed the politics of the day. He told the people to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. That solves the problem. But so often peope want to play junior Holy Spirit and go beyond what Jesus did. All too often when non-Pentecostals hear a preacher preach on the Holy Sprit they think he is someone to question and be viewed as strange.

 

About ten years ago, the New Yorker magazine ran a fairly complete profile of LBJ. What your pastor told you is just one small nuggat in a giant treasure trove. He was very colorful and certainly corrupt. But what did him in with his own party was his expansion of the Vietnam War.

 

My position is based on the nature of the task of preaching. Preaching is a biblical task that uses the Bible as its base of authority. There is no way to use the Bible legitimately to endorse political candidates. It is not a sin to endorse political candidates. I believe it is a sin to abuse the authority of the pulpit where the Bible is supposed to be the authority to do such. WE can with biblical authority address issues like homoseuxuality and abortion. I did both using the Bible as the authority. I talked about the incoherence of a Christian voting for a candidate who openly supports abortion. But I did so from a biblical basis.

The IRS has the right to do whatever the law says it can. Tax exemption is not a biblical command.

I don't care whether the IRS taxes them or not. Under current law, they should be consistent. IF they are going to go after churches that endorse Republicans, then they should go after churches who endorse Democrats as well.

But the bigger issue is that preachers in the pulpit should stick to God's word. It is the power of God unto salvation, and salvation is the world's greatest need. Why talk about something else?

I don't care how it is enforced. It doesn't matter to me. As with many crimes, they are punished when they are reported.

Nothing ... This sort of stuff happens a lot through other means, like when rich people set up tax shelters or shell corporations to hide income.

God has ordained the government as his servant. God quite often punishes through secondary causation, through the use of other means.

 

Then 'separation of church and state,' which has been preached in Baptist pulpits for 2 or 3 centuries, should not therein be preached "without a time for differing viewpoints." Is this your view? </font>[/QUOTE]Have you ever asked a Baptist preacher where the issue of the separation of church and state came from and how it originated? If not try it sometime. Ask your pastor this Sunday.

There are too many ignorant preachers who use the pulpit to express their opinion when they know little or nothing about the issues. How many preachers preach what they hear and not what they study? The pulpit is not an excuse for opinion. If you needed heart surgery you would not want to wait for a lecture on who to vote for if you were near death. The gospel demands an immediate radical Christianity not a bully preacher. Radical Christianity requires action by a radical Christian not a bully pulpiteer.

Remember there are always two sides. One side looks right until the other side is presented. However scripture has one side--God's and its true and righteous. That is the position I want to stand on.

Several years ago I called on every preacher in an evangelical church in the immmediate area to join with us in speaking against the local high school about what one of the teachers was requiring to be read in her junior English class. Not one would join us but I got a lot of excuses when I called. We got no response from the school so we went to the media and got an evening news interview. That interview got immediate action. It was amazing what happened to our attendance too.

I have never preached a political message but taught the people the Bible and how to make disciples. People that take personal responsibility in their private lives will also do it in their public life. He who is faithful in little is faithful in much....

 

WE can with biblical authority address issues like homoseuxuality and abortion. I did both using the Bible as the authority. I talked about the incoherence of a Christian voting for a candidate who openly supports abortion. But I did so from a biblical basis.

Pastor Larry,
It does not matter what basis you did it from, if you are a C-3 church you have made an agreement to stay out of politics. You are preaching politics when you talk about anything having to do with any candidate. Your actions and your statements are inconsistent by your own admission. You will continue to be inconsistent as long as moral Biblical issues are part of any political platform and preach the Scriptures. You want to hold on to the government goodies and preach what you say is truth.
Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
May God give you the wisdom to know that you are wrong on your position.
Thanks ------Bart