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"Closed" Communion

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Mitsy, May 3, 2004.

  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    While I'm not a fan of closed communion, churches certainly do have the autonomous right to practice closed communion if they so with.
    If they're a Baptist concregation, then they can't make you get repaptized as a prerequisite for membership. A Believer's Baptism is a Baptist Distinctive, and they don't have the right to amend that.
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Very Catholic, very Church of Christ, very Mormonistic, very unscriptual.</font>[/QUOTE]Grasshopper, I wanted to clarify one thing: The RCC doesn't rebaptise. If you're a Baptist or a Presby, and you join the RCC, you don't get baptized again. I think you're right about the others, though.

    Just an FYI ;)
     
  3. countrybaptist

    countrybaptist New Member

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    Our church, which is Southern Baptist, practices closed communion (members only) and rebaptism for new members. This is based on the belief that the ordinances of baptism and Lord's Supper were given by Jesus to the "local church". Therefore, in order to join our "local church", you must be rebaptised (unless it was done in a church that practices the same Scriptural baptism we practice: immersion, after repentance, in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Ghost, etc).
    This is done for the Lord's Supper in case we have visitors from CofC or Pentecostal for example who claim to have been saved and baptised, when it may not have been done according to the way our church (i.e. the Bible) teaches.
    Based on your testimony (prior Baptist church), we would probably receive you into our membership w/o the rebaptism and you would then be allowed to partake of the Lord's Supper.
    I would guess there are other churches in your area that believe likewise.

    Prayer and fasting is recommended.

    God bless,

    Brian
     
  4. Mitsy

    Mitsy New Member

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    I'm sure there are some who believe similarly to yours "if" I were willing to overlook the fact that most of these are much larger churches than what I'd care to get involved in. I think the size of the Primitive church was part of the attraction, and I actually like the simple worship service they have, and the fellowship that is as much a part of their worship as the actual preaching. There are others there who are also "not" members and have been going with their wives for 40 years or more. Myself and the pastor's wife are the only women who are not members. Maybe I'm making too big a deal of it. Will see how I feel about it next week. Thanks for all the responses.
     
  5. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Mitsy,

    I feel for you. It is hard to find a good church, even here in the Bible Belt. And then be told you have to be re-baptized...I don't get it.

    I will keep you in my prayers.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  6. countrybaptist

    countrybaptist New Member

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    Mitsy,

    Wow, I know this is a separate point, but did you say the pastor's wife was not a member!?!
    I've never heard of this. Have others?

    Curious about this b/c we have a preacher in our area whose wife won't join a local Baptist church, therefore he never does more than interim and supply preaching. Do you mean to tell me that some churches are OK with hiring a pastor whose wife won't join the church?

    Brian
     
  7. Mitsy

    Mitsy New Member

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    From what I gather, the pastor (Elder's) wife was a member of the Christian Church-Disciples of Christ, and is very much a baptised Christian, but for her own personal reasons has not chosen to be rebaptised. This does not seem to bother her nor does it bother any of the other brethren there. The elder and his wife are from another city (and also pastors a church in his home town) and drive quite a distance to preach at our church. I have no idea how his home church feels about the pastor's wife not being a member.

    During the "off" Sundays, many of the members drive to other Primitive Baptist Church locations where you get to hear their regular speaker. I haven't quite figured out how they decide who speaks where or on what Sunday, but the church I attend meets the first, third, and fifth Sundays each month. I've only visited some other Primitive churches a couple times and always rode with another couple.

    This couple, in fact, has somewhat taken me under their wing and treat me like I'm "one of the flock" which has been heartwarming. I doubt that I end up leaving this church just because of the communion issue. I've had no pressure whatsoever to actually "join" the church anyway. The people mainly just want me to attend and oftentimes miss me when I'm unable to attend. It's things like that that don't often happen in your bigger churches.
     
  8. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    While it is not unheard-of for the wife of an elder to not be a member it does happen. In fact, my pastor's wife is not a member.

    As it is up to the individual and God when they decide to come forward and submit to baptism I can not fault anyone for not joining at a certain time. I find many hold-outs are of the midset that they do not feel worthy to be a member. Of course, if that was a requirement, then there would be no members because none of us are worthy in and of ourselves.

    Mitsy, the churches usually decide at the annual, quarterly, monthly, or whatever, business meetings who will hold what Sunday appointments at their church each month throughout the year.

    Most often, with churches holding services every Sunday, the Pastor will keep 2 - 3 Sundays of the month and another elder(s) will keep the remaining Sunday(s) allowing the pastor to visit other churches and hold other appointments.

    If there is a visiting elder then the regular appointment holder may yield time to that minister, and if there is a young man, such as myself on occassion, who the appointment holder feels led to call upon he may open services or introduce for about 20 minutes or so before the appointment holder closes services.

    In any event, it depends on what the Spirit leads the man holding the appointment to do.

    What is the pastor's name? Perhaps I know of him.
     
  9. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    No disrespect intended, but PB's do not hire pastors. I don't know about other churches, though.
     
  10. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    My church (SBC) has a full time senior pastor, three full-time associate pastors, and two part-time pastors. They have a full staff of about 15 clerical and support staff, not including the staff of the school (K-8).
     
  11. countrybaptist

    countrybaptist New Member

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    pinoybaptist,

    Thanks for pointing out my incorrect wording. Our church does not "hire" pastors either. We extend a call, and yes, I do believe there is a difference (authority, etc.).


    Mitsy,
    I really appreciate your dilemna. I would be concerned about the long term effects of not being able to partake of the Lord's Supper. After all, it is one of the only two church ordinances and its meaning and importance to one's Christian walk should not be underestimated. Where you continue in your walk and fellowship must be decided b/w you and God, but partaking of the Lord's Supper is such a serious issue, it could be the deciding factor alone. Would you be okay with remaining a life-long attender of this church, therefore never partaking of the Lord's Supper again?

    God bless,
    Brian
     
  12. Mitsy

    Mitsy New Member

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    To be honest, I can't say for sure. The communion issue is not actually something I think about often; only at communion time, which is apparently twice a year at this church. I'm sure if I wasn't there on communion Sunday (or did something else that day--even visit another church), it wouldn't seem like an issue at all. That's why I decided not to attend again on communion Sunday.
     
  13. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    If you don't care to get rebaptized, then I don't really see your problem. I too have been a visitor at a PB church during communion, I am a member of a missionary baptist church and we too practice closed communion, the PB, as I understand it practice close communion, which means if you were a baptized member of a PB church in good order, you would be received in the Lord's Supper.

    I hope you continue where you are at and are led by the Spirit to join there by baptism.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  14. GREG S

    GREG S New Member

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    Well, Brother Reed, hang in there. I am an independent baptist and I do believe it is the authority of the baptish church to decide whether someone has scriptural baptism or not.
    That authority was given to her by her husband, our redeemer. That authority is not in the hands of and individual. An individual cannot be a church, cannot baptise apart from church authority and cannot observe the lord's supper apart from a church people. Individuality is a dreadful heresy that attempts to destroy the body of Christ. No one wants to believe that they need to submit themselves to the authority of a local assembly. The brother in corinthians who was guilty of adultery found out fast he was wrong about who had God's authority. Stand fast in what you believe about basic church authority. These people have thrown away their baptist inheritance and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
    Greg
     
  15. R. Charles Blair

    R. Charles Blair New Member

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    Greetings! While I sympathize with Mitsy in her concerns, and will join her in prayer for His will, let me address another side of the matter. Most of the posts have referred to "feelings," in such terms as "I'm not comfortable with," etc. Almost none have done any actual Scriptural study to justify their views. If we believe the Bible and seek to obey it, there is no such thing as truly "open" communion. Paul gives the church at Corinth at least 3 specific limitations. Chapter 5 makes it clear that no openly immoral person, regardless of salvation, baptism, or membership, is to be welcomed at the Lord's table - "with such a one not to eat." Ch. 10 makes it clear that no one not at least professing salvation is to be welcomed (vv. 14-22: "ye cannot partake of the Lord's table and the table of demons.") While some may make a false profession, be immersed, and be on a church roll, no one clearly an unbeliever is ever invited Scripturally. And ch. 11 emphasizes that communion is to be in the (local) church: "When ye come together as a church," v. 18. And the emphasis is that if there are divisions, factions, in that group, "it is not to eat the Lord's Supper" (Greek, "Ye cannot eat the Lord's Supper.") No openly immoral people; no openly lost people; no open divisions. What is it when those of various doctrines attempt to call themselves one by some form of communion? What is it but division and actually a mockery?

    There is one simple way to maintain these biblical standards without judging anyone. Those who are in fellowship with the (local) congregation are to examine themselves in this most serious issue. Those who fail to do so may eat and drink condemnation to themselves, 11:27-34). Any other approach either makes us judges (he can partake; he's a pretty good fellow. She cannot; she's immoral. I really don't think he is saved), or invites an anti-Scriptural breakdown of biblical standards. "Church communion" is the least judgmental of all possible positions; genuinely "open" communion the least Scriptural, since it invites the immoral, the professingly lost, and those of divided views on equal terms.

    in the final analysis, Scripture and not opinion must be the test of all our practice.

    Wishing all of you all His best - Charles Blair - Rom. 8:28
     
  16. ZeroTX

    ZeroTX Member
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    Very Catholic, very Church of Christ, very Mormonistic, very unscriptual.

    My advice, run as fast and as far away from that "church" as possible.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry to have to say that I agree 100% here... very unscriptural, very self-centered and somehwat silly sounding, to be honest. This type of attitude is one of the reasons I do not like Catholicism (nothing against Catholics, but it's not for me).

    The "one true church" (which BTW, are words that do not appear in The Bible) is the church of believers in Jesus Christ.... Not a political organization that operates a franchise of churches.

    -Michael
     
  17. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    So who baptized the first Baptists?
     
  18. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver New Member

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    Hi Mitsy

    I think I am the senior Primitive Baptist in the neighborhood, and have been an elder for 25 years come July.

    While Brother Reed's statement about being the true church is held by many, the reasons for the rebaptisement requirement is based in history, not really theology. Back years ago when Primitive Baptists felt it necessary to separate from Baptist who practice more modern things, it was necessary (or so it was felt) that to accept baptism from those groups who practiced those things would mean that we accepted those modernistic things as well. It has not been unheard of for Baptists of some more modern persuasions to accept members from Methodist or other padeobaptist groups without rebaptism. Our people felt this was unacceptable, so, a simple rule to make it easy, cuts down on controversey, etc. Everyone who joins a Primitive Baptist church must be baptized by a Primitive Baptist minister into membership into a Primitive Baptist church. Simple, straightforward, and it saves alot of agruments of what does and doesn't constitute a valid baptism. Others are free to disagree.

    As to church exclusivity. Of course we believe we are the true church. If we didn't we'd be out searching for something else. I expect that most people if they thought about it would do likewise. If you don't agree with us, then find some place that suits you. We don't believe local church membership has any bearing on eternal salvation whatsoever. We do believe that there are joys that come with church membership, and if you find those joys with us, accept us as we are. Most of our ways are simple, our joys are simple, our worship is simple. We believe we are completely dependent upon the Creator and that he needs no help from us. We attend meeting as our reasonable service. There is considerable joy for some of us in that simplicity. Others don't find it to be so. If you need gobs of programs to do, then we are not for you. God speed at finding something that is right for your mindset, if you can't agree.

    Over the years, we have had many who have come amongst us, and decided that we need to modernize this or that, and inevitably they have caused us division. Please understand that if an exception is made for you, then exceptions will have to be made for everyone. And then exceptions to our practice, and beliefs will have to be made, and then, sooner or later, your beloved little church will divide and blow away.

    Talk with the pastor of this church, see if he can make it clearer than one can on a written page. Sometimes facial expressions make all the difference in understanding.

    Warm regards
    Jeff Weaver
     
  19. Mitsy

    Mitsy New Member

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    Brother Jeff:

    You will be happy to know that I did attend the Primitive Church yesterday. Went with the couple that I normally go with when we go to out of town meetings. The man is a deacon of the church and we did talk some about the communion thing. He made it clear to me that they did not believe that baptism saved anyone nor did they believe that only Primitive Baptists were saved. He said they believed that there were many saved people in other denominations. That is something I needed to hear. In fact, he said that they were more inclusive on what they believed (as far as the salvation issue) than many groups, including some other Baptist groups. I also believe that to be true. At this point, I have not totally ruled out the possibility of joining at some point. But, the general consensus of the people seems to be that they do not care if I ever "formally" join or not. They just want me to come and be a part of the church. The only thing I can't participate in is the communion, and maybe I made too big a deal out of that. If it still bothers me later, I might have to re-evaluate or decide to join. Actually, it's not the "joining" but the re-baptism that I'm a bit apprehensive about. However, I can also look on the other hand and think that it isn't a bad thing to get re-baptised.

    I work with a gal who has been fully immersed at least once and sprinkled at least twice. Maybe it was immersed twice and sprinkled once. Can't remember. When they moved, they joined different denominations (or perhaps didn't have a church of the same type where they moved). She didn't seem to mind that she had done this more than once. My Baptist roots tell me that fully immersed is more of what I believe the Bible talks about, but I also believe that baptism doesn't save anyone.

    As far as the person being immoral and taking communion, I feel that unless someone is blatantly being immoral, then no one has a right to decide if that person can take communion (provided they are a church member). I think a person's state of heart is ultimately between them and God. Not between them and the mortal men of the church.

    As far as any other doctrines of the Primitive Baptists, I am in total agreement. I love the simple worship style (is not hard for anyone to understand or be a part of). I love the fellowship meals where "real fellowship" takes place--something that seems to be missing in many other churches (or at least in many that I have previously visited).
     
  20. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    Glad to hear it Mitsy.

    I apologize if I did not make clear in my rantings that we do not believe that baptism saves. Sometimes I take it for granted that everyone, including newer ones to the faith, doesn't know everything that we believe. My apologies if I ever seemed to be saying that we are the only ones that will be in heaven. That is a belief that WILL NOT be found amongst the Primitive Baptists.

    I am so glad that you are more at peace with the issue since talking with the brother up there. It has really been bothering me lately, so I was glad to hear it.

    I pray that God will grant you His grace as you seek out to better understand His word.

    God Bless. Bro. James
     
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