Col.2{16}

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Chowmah, Jan 12, 2011.

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  1. Chowmah

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    COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

    This is the scripture the sunday mornin go to meeting people like to point to to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. This is their main point to scripture. So what is Col.2{16} really saying if its not saying what the sunday morners say its saying?

    The sundayers make the claim we can now eat the portly porkers because of whats written in Col.2{16}. I guess my 1st question would be is what "drink" is it now that we can drink due to whats written in that scripture? What drink is targeted in the old testament law that we are forbiddin that now we can drink.
     
  2. Dr. Walter

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    If you really think that Colossians 2:16 ALONE is the ONLY basis for Christians to eat PORK or any other food previously condemned under CEREMONIAL law you simply need to do your homework better. Acts 10, 1 Tim. 4:1-6; Hebrews 8-9; Acts 15; Galatians 3-4; Romans 14-15 completely demolish and destroy your legalistic form of Christianity.
     
  3. Dr. Walter

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    God's diet for man in the garden until the flood was simply VEGETATION
    God's diet for man from the flood to Moses - ANYTHING EDIBLE
    God's diet for man between Moses and the Cross - Ceremonial Clean
    God's diet for man from the cross until now - ANYTHING EDIBLE
     
  4. Dr. Walter

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    The first day of the week is the Lord's day under the New Covenant just as the last day of the week was the Lord's day under the Old Covenant as it was the "sign" of the OLD covenant. We are no longer under the OLD covenant or its SIGN but we are under the NEW covenant and its SIGN.

    This is why the SABBATICAL CYLCE under the OLD Covenant is clearly stated to be abolished in Colossians 2:14-16 along with the CEREMONIAL laws of clean and unclean.
     
  5. Chowmah

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    Good mornin good doctor. Where does it say in scripture that the 1st day of the week is the Lords day? Where is it implied?
     
  6. Chowmah

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    And the "drink" spoken of in Col.2
     
  7. Alcott

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    Basically your OP is a good summation, except maybe classifying every Christian who is not a sabbatarian as a "sundayer." If convocation need not be any particular day, that includes Sundays; and there are churches that have replaced one or more services on Sunday with one on Friday or Saturday night.

    As to food and drink, I ascertain from that passage and others that we may choose what goes ilnto us. That does not nullify other legitimate reasons for avoiding or limiting certain things. But don't forget the passage begins with "Therefore let no one judge you...." That's the very thing sabbatarians and kosherists try to do-- have this sense of superiority and condemn what somebody else does that concerns only the one doing it.
     
  8. SpiritualMadMan

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    Perhaps if the good doctor had said "Anything Digestible"?

    Meat and Drink being inclusive, I'd say.

    The Word also says to:
    Php 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

    And, Paul told Timothy
    1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

    The question I have to ask whenever this type of thread comes into being, is what is it's purpose?

    Is it:
    Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

    Or, it is to bring dissension?
    Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
    ----snip----
    Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

    Or, is it an honest sharing of a point of view?

    It is often hard to tell, because those that are of the Messianic Persausion tend to come on so strongly that they appear to be Judaizers, when it is, I suppose, possible they are not.

    What do you think "Drink" has to do with? Chowmah?
     
  9. Chowmah

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    In short

    JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.
     
  10. Chowmah

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    GAL. 2 [3] But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: [4] And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

    No SpiritualMadMan
    I really dont care if youve been circumcised or not

    1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Niether does God care. But...He does care about the keeping of His commandments
     
  11. Salty

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    Chowmah, This might be Off topic - but what do you mean when you say your home church is "with out hands"

    This might explain some of your theology
     
  12. SpiritualMadMan

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    So, if I follow your OP correctly, then, you say that the Food and Drink Cerimonial Laws are God's Commandments and should be kept?

    As well as the Saturday Sabbath?
     
  13. Chowmah

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    Hi Salty
    I belong to no denomination that i know of. If i was to listen to the many i guess i would be of the Church of Legaltarians...Even though i always point out that we are saved by the grace of God alone. A fee gift given to those who obey the Father. Heres a few scripture that explain the "without hands"

    ACTS 17 [24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, DWELLETH NOT IN TEMPLES MADE WITH HANDS;

    MARK 14 [57] And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,[58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

    ZECH.6 [12] And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE of the LORD: [13] Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

    1COR.3 [16] Know ye not that YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?[17] If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    2COR.6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.[12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.[13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, SAITH THE LORD, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING; and I will receive you,[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

    EPH.2 [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:[22] In whom YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER FOR AN HABITATION OF GOD THROUGH THE SPIRIT.
     
  14. Chowmah

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    Yeah we are to keep Gods sabbath day and all His commandments. As for the food and drink laws spoken of in Col.2 we should let scripture interpret scripture

    COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

    Lets look at scripture that talks about the same thing as Col.2

    EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    Heres one. Same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. What are the odds these 2 scriptures are not speaking about the same thing? A trillion to one? Do you believe that Ezek.45 is telling the old testament folks they no longer need keep Gods sabbath day or that its alright to go out and eat their piggys? Aint no way. Its simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the law contained within the ordinances which were to take place on Gods holy days, new moons and His sabbath days. The many claim that the meat and drink spoken of in Col.2 are the unclean foods such as the oinker. If that were so please show me where any drink was said to be unclean. If there is an unclean drink ive yet to find it in the scriptures.

    HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

    So why should we judge no man in meat or drink in respect to holy days, new moons and sabbath days? Because Jesus fulfilled these offerings that were written in the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. Its the meat and drink offerings that are no more to be observed.

    JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

    When we let scripture interpret scripture its very clear what Col.2 is speaking about. The meat and drink offerings of those days are no longer to be kept.
     
  15. SpiritualMadMan

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    A simple yes or no answer would have been sufficient...

    I assume from the verbosity of your response that you do in fact believe that we are to keep all the food laws as well.

    I will participate in further discussions, based on the assumption, pending a simple yes or no response...

    Either we do or we don't...

    Oh foolish Galatian, you who wish to be bound again...

    So sorry for you...
     
  16. Chowmah

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    Why foolish Galatian? We are talking about the 10 commandments. The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned at all.
     
  17. SpiritualMadMan

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    Here is a *very* interesting article on The Sabbath.

    http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/sabbath.html

    Has anyone else read it?

    The end point is that as there were no Named Days when this all began, and further since some of the cultures that contained the jews did not have a seven day week. We can no longer be absolutely sure that our seven day calendar coincides with the original Jewish Seven days calendar.

    Further, as the count restarted the day after the Sabbath, and because some Sabbaths had more than one day... The Original Sabbath, had there been Named Days, would not have been on every Saturday, or Every Sunday or even every Wednesday.

    Lastly, the law of first mention makes The Sabbath primarily a day of Rest, not a day of Worship that occurs every seven days.

    You could keep the intent of the sabbath by resting every Wednesday, or Every Thrusday...

    But, don't listen to me read the article...

    Remember, man needs the sabbath rest, made for man, the sabbath does not need man...
     
  18. Chowmah

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    Ya know SpiritualMadMan no matter what storys man has come up with ya gotta know that Jesus was keeping the correct day. He kept Gods sabbath day. Since that time the Jews have kept the same day Jesus was keeping and also a small group of believers in Christ.
     
  19. Chowmah

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    You there good Doctor?
     
  20. Dr. Walter

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    We are no longer under the Old Covenant and its sign but under the new covenant with its sign (Heb. 4:1-11). I have talked with you guys until I am blue in the face and it does no good because you are blind. Christ arose Sunday morning during the fourth watch of the night between 3 am to 6 am and the technical term used for the fourth watch of the night is used repeatedly to describe the time of his resurrection and the time when the women went early in the morning to his grave when they discovered the rock was rolled away.

    The Greek tecnical term "kuriakos" is used only twice in the New Testament and when used with the "hameros" it refers to SUNDAY as the day the Emperor set aside for emperor worship. This was well known in the first century. This is the term used in Revelation 1:10 and this is the term used consistently by Christians to describe the "resurrection day" the "eighth day" and "Sunday" or "The Lord's [kuriakos] day.

    I have read and dealt with the silly arguments presented by Seventh Day Sabbatarians and it useless to discuss with them.
     
    #20 Dr. Walter, Jan 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2011
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