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Col.2{16}

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Chowmah, Jan 12, 2011.

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  1. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    #81 Dr. Walter, Jan 30, 2011
  2. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    No Dr. i am not assuming the role of a prophet. I simply let scripture interpret scripture. But speaking of the prophets, there were false prophets. Do you know what those little rascals done? Why didnt christians see them coming? We Christians were actually givin many warnings about these bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.

    1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

    Watch out for these roaring lions!

    MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

    Beware of false these prophets. They are RAVENING WOLVES. Also implied here is that “the many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life. Make ya think Dr?

    ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

    The GRIEVOUS WOLVES were there from the beginning

    EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

    Well, I found all these warnings from the new testament in one scripture. The Day of the Lord scriptures are so great. Since “that day” has not yet arrived no one can claim that the scripture is for ancient Israel and does not apply to christians. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

    EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

    A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings. Christians should have seen them coming Doc. But....hes a tricky little devil
     
    #82 Chowmah, Jan 31, 2011
  3. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    Very funny! I don't think you are discerning Jewish versus gentile context very well or present versus future context very well.

    Your quotation of Ezekiel 34 was taken out of context as Ezekiel 37 defines precisely the subject - the Jewish nation presently under Old covenant who will be saved under new covenant one day (Ezek. 36). You are attempting to apply Old Covenant scriptures to New Covenant church saints and thus ignore or worse yet repudiate the New Testament decelaration that such have been abolished.
     
    #83 Dr. Walter, Jan 31, 2011
  4. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    So what you are trying to say is...yes Christians must look out for those roaring lions and ravenous wolves and so on and so forth as warned of in the new testament. But Ezek 22 is talking about the Jewish roaring lions and ravenous wolves and so on and so forth. Wow Doc, thats a bit out there aint it.
     
    #84 Chowmah, Jan 31, 2011
  5. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    No, what I am saying is that you have no idea what you are talking about as you are simply perverting God's Word and twisting it and jerking it out of its proper context and placing it in the context of YOUR CHOICE.
     
    #85 Dr. Walter, Feb 1, 2011
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Actually if I recall correctly, he is not a Dr. yet...he is working towards it, like I'm working towards becoming President of the United States one day.

    You can now call me President Webdog :D

    The first day of the week is when the Lord defeated death and the grave. If that is not the Lord's Day, I don't know what would qualify.
     
    #86 webdog, Feb 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2011
  7. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    Mr. Almost President,:thumbs: I agree with your assessment!
     
    #87 Dr. Walter, Feb 1, 2011
  8. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Did the Lord defeat death on a sunday morn? Please explain with scripture. Keeping in mind the only sign given..Jonah
     
    #88 Chowmah, Feb 2, 2011
  9. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    The gospel of Mark provides the basis for the use of the Greek term "proii" from the Lord's own mouth as a technical term for the fourth watch of the night between 3 am to 6 am.

    Mk. 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning [proii]:


    Here Christ outlines the four military watches of the night

    1. "at even" - 6 pm to 9pm
    2. "midnight" - 9pm to 12am
    3. "cockcrowing - 12am to 3am
    4. "morning' - 3am to 6am

    Mark 16:9 ¶ Now when Jesus was risen early [proii]the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

    Mark uses the same term to define the precise time of the night he arose from the grave - "proii" - 3am to 6am

    This agrees with every account of the precise time of the night when the women came and found the grave empty:

    Luke 24:1 ¶ Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

    John 20:1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early [proii], when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
     
    #89 Dr. Walter, Feb 2, 2011
  10. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    As previously touched upon, as far as the Bible is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest. The Acts reference has them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord’s Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
     
    #90 rstrats, Feb 4, 2011
  11. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    That is factually false - 1 Cor. 16:1-2 is a direct command to do this and the word "store" in the Greek is the same identical term used in the LXX in Malichi 3:10 and refers to the house of God which the congregation is (1 Tim. 3:15).

    You cannot find ONE TEXT that states that ANY CONGREGATION of Christ met on the Jewish Sabbath - NOT ONE!

    You cover this problem up by quoting MISSIONARY endeavors by Paul to reach LOST Jews by meeting IN THE JEWISH SYNOGUGE when this is no congregational body of Christ meeting at all. It is the common MISSIONARY outreach of Paul to LOST Jews as they and their GENTILE PROSELYTES met in the Synonogue all over the Roman Empire on the Jewish Sabbath.

    The fly in your ointment is that this is the day Christ chose to reveal himself to them. Christ did not choose to reveal himself to Doubting Thomas until the next Christian sabbath - Sunday.

    Furthermore, Mark 16:9 and Hebrews 4:1-11 with Psalm 118:20-25 are all Biblical declarations for a new Christian Sabbath on the first day of the week that is better than the Jewish Sabbath - yes, please do challenge me on these texts.



    Completely false. Paul planned his visit around the new Christian Sabbath as the text demands that Paul came to them "when" the disciples came together rather than "when" Paul came to them.

    Completely false. They were assembling on the first day of the week in Acts 2:1 as Pentecost occurred on the day following the seventh Jewish Sabbath (Lev. 23) and because all Jewish men and Gentile proselyte men were gathered in Jerusalem for Passover and Pentecost and because revival broke out they were conducting service every day as soon these men must return to the nations they had come from. This is not the circumstances in Acts 20:7 and this was their appointed day of worship.
     
    #91 Dr. Walter, Feb 4, 2011
  12. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Dr. Walter,

    re: "1 Cor. 16:1-2 is a direct command to do this and the word ‘store’ in the Greek is the same identical term used in the LXX in Malichi 3:10 and refers to the house of God..."
    　
    The Greek verb "thesaurizo" used in 1 Corinthians 16:2 is used in the Septuagent several times and Malichi 3:10 is not one of those times. And it does not refer the "house of God" in any of the times that it is used.
    　
    　
    re: "You cannot find ONE TEXT that states that ANY CONGREGATION of Christ met on the Jewish Sabbath - NOT ONE!"
    　
    And you cannot find ONE TEXT that states that ANY CONGREGATION of Christ met on the first day of the week for the purpose of rest and worship - NOT ONE!
    　

    re: "The fly in your ointment is that this is the day Christ chose to reveal himself to them. Christ did not choose to reveal himself to Doubting Thomas until the next Christian sabbath - Sunday."
    　
    Actually, John 20:26 says that it was after eight days, which would make it at least the second day of the week.
     
    #92 rstrats, Feb 4, 2011
  13. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    Malichi 3:10 uses the NOUN form - "thesaurous" descriptive of the house of God where tithes and offerings were brought and stored. 1 Cor. 16:2 uses the verb form to define the action of bringing it to God's house.
    　
    　　
    Wrong! Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2
    　
    　
    A.T. Robertson and others have pointed out that the Jews counted the Sunday as day one and thus next Sunday would be day eight.

    After eight days (μεθ ημερας οκτω). That is the next Sunday evening, on the eighth day in reality just like "after three days" and "on the third day." - A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures, John 20:26
     
    #93 Dr. Walter, Feb 4, 2011
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    5 February 2011-02-05

    I pray God to give me strength to keep up the good fight for the Gospel cause : strength nor wisdom I have but daily realize more and more I am in great need of, in order to do my Christian duty.

    And another task has been added to that Christian duty of mine, to fight YOU, Dr Walter, so help me God, to the bitter end, for the sake of God’s Truth through Jesus Christ.

    Therefore,

    Re: …





    GE:

    [Yes, although found under "John 20:26"..... Robertson makes comparison between "John 20:26" and Mark 8:31 Matthew 27:60.]

    Re: these words of yours: “After eight days (μεθ ημερας οκτω). That is the next Sunday evening, on the eighth day in reality just like "after three days" and "on the third day." - A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures, John 20:26[/QUOTE]”

    …which words of yours,
    "A.T. Robertson and others have pointed out that the Jews counted the Sunday as day one and thus next Sunday would be day eight",
    are an UTTER disgusting manhandling of A.T. Robertson and his aim with making this statement— which PURELY WAS LINGUISTICALLY, AND EXPLANATION OF THE ABLATIVE CASE. Dr Robertson had no agenda concerning Sunday-doctrine! Which is absolutely confirmed by the very specific comparison he made between the two texts. He meant to show the meaning of the ABLATIVE: that ‘after’ in such a ‘Case’ case, SIMPLY means: ‘on’ or ‘still within the perimeters of some time-period’.

    If A.T. Robertson were alive today, you should have made apology to him personally for having perverted his intentions so! But now that he is not alive, you owe your Baptist Board readers an apology, if you are the Christian man you say you are.

     
    #94 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 5, 2011
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  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    So, according to your line of 'thinking', Dr Walter, since the following texts

    “use the NOUN form - "thesaurous" descriptive of the house of God …

    "the earth" (Mt6:19),
    "in heaven" (v.20), "himself" (Lk12:21),
    "wrath" (Ro2:5),
    "the parents" (2Cor12:14),
    "the last days" (James 5:3) and
    "fire" (2Pt3:7) …

    and so on, like "Egypt", "field", "cracked earthen pots" ...

    …ought to be "the house of God where tithes and offerings were brought and stored".


    [/SIZE]
     
    #95 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 5, 2011
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  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    No! ‘thesauridzoh’ simply means what it is usually translated in 1Cor16:2, namely, “to save or store up”.

    The text tells WHERE to ‘store up’:
    “INDIVIDUALLY AT HOME”
    =
    “EACH ONE” ‘hekastos’
    “OF you” ‘humohn’— Genitive; not Nominative!
    “BY HIMSELF” ‘par heautohi’.

    NOT IN “the house of God where tithes and offerings were brought and stored". You are directly contradicting and OPPOSING, the Apostle Paul, claiming, "1 Cor. 16:2 uses the verb form to define the action of bringing it to God's house."!
     
    #96 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 5, 2011
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  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    The fact moneys etc. were handled on the First Day of the week per se is proof the First Day was NOT the Christian Day of Worship Rest. NO such things belong to the Sabbath of the LORD your God WHICH IS DEDICATED TO "the LORD your God" unless MONEY is your god!

     
    #97 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 5, 2011
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Strats is right, and Dr Walter, is 'wrong'.

    In fact:

    1) Acts 2:1 'Pentecost' fell on the Sabbath Day according to prophecy and all the Scriptures "GOD THUS CONCERNING THE SEVENTH DAY SPAKE". Hebrews 4:4. God NEVER “THUS” concerning the First Day of the week, “spake”!

    2) Acts 20:7 implies through Perfect Participle the initial 'gathering together',
    happened on the Sabbath Day BEFORE,
    …BECAUSE…

    "HAVING BEEN ASSEMBLING ON THE FIRST DAY STILL,
    Paul conversed with them ... until midnight..."

    3) 1Corinthians 16:2 ... The savings up of contributions to charity had to be
    "calculated according to ability / prospering" 'ho ti e-an euodohtai'
    "at home on one's own"
    because on Sabbaths, the Congregations worshiped.

     
    #98 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 5, 2011
  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Re: "1 Cor. 16:1-2 is a direct command to do this ......"

    "......this......" referring to Strats,
    “…with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week…”

    So, Dr Walter is saying: "1 Cor. 16:1-2 is a direct command to...”, “…get together on the first (day) of the week".

    Please show us, Dr Walter?
     
    #99 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 5, 2011
  20. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    Satan is the one enlisting you for his service my friend not the Lord.

    I
    I simply quoted A.T. Robertson's own comment on John 20:26. You are the one that owe's Dr. Robertson the apology for attempting to put words in his mouth he never said.
     
    #100 Dr. Walter, Feb 5, 2011
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