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Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Crabtownboy, May 9, 2012.
I am not at all surprised.
I would hope not. By that point it was no need to debate it further. There was enough of that during the Clinton years and in the UN. Our troops won the Gulf War only to have the politicians lose it for us.
I am not surprised, either. Here is probably the only time where you and I will agree, CTB.
The fact is that Iraq's Ahmed Chalabi who formed the Iraqi National Congress had lobbied Congress and administrations for YEARS to get us involved in Iraq and fed members of Congress and GW Bush faulty intelligence to get us ensnared, with hopes of himself taking Saddam's place and guaranteeing they would be an ally with Israel and form a democratic nation, etc.
While I personally have always viewed Colin Powell as a RINO, I have no doubt he has not much good to say about the administration he served, but I also believe there possibly could have been WMDs there that were whisked off to Syria to Saddam's buddy who is Baath Party.
All in all, I feel going into Iraq was a waste of lives, limbs, and treasure and that ultimately, no matter what, there will be a civil war there between the Sunni and Shia and Kurds - tribal wars, as well, that have gone on for decades and decades. It is very unfortunate that billions upon billions of dollars of our tax dollars are unaccounted for in both Iraq and Afghanistan and that so much of our tax money was wasted in building a US Embassy in Iraq that is bigger than Vatican City. But the worst waste of all, is all of our soldiers and their families who have suffered the loss of life and limbs and suffering from the terrible memories of that conflict. Every soldier I have talked to who is ex-military and served in Iraq and Afghanistan are now free to say and do say, it was all a big mistake and waste, that we have gained nothing.
Had anyone dared to look to history, they would have seen that not that many years ago, Winston Churchill got England bogged down in Iraq and lives and limbs were lost there, too, and that nearly bankrupted England....history does repeat itself. "At present we are paying eight millions a year for the privilege of living on an ungrateful volcano out of which we are in no circumstances to get anything worth having.” -- Winston Churchill, 1922
In the end, if it was the right strategy to draw the terrorists there to fight our brave soldiers rather than have the terrorists blowing up our bridges and planting IEDs here in the homeland, then perhaps it was worth it. But to hear the refrain that our troops have fought and are fighting for our freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan is just a little too over the top.
I had started to wonder what it was all about, myself. Then I talked with my Lieutenant (who has no reason to try and deceive anyone), and he provided a clearer understanding of why we are here.
He talked a little bit about George W Bush's "Freedom Agenda", and the argument that for America to truly be safe from terrorist attacks we must eradicate any safe havens the terrorists have. In his "Freedom Agenda", he states that "Freedom is contagious", and that once people taste freedom, they want more.
The plan ultimately in Iraq and Afghanistan was to stabilize them into a Democracy that was hostile towards terrorist cells. Once the oppressed world saw what was happening, they started to overthrow oppressive governments. The idea is that they then set up Democracies without any intervention by us; and thus our examples in Iraq and Afghanistan spur on other countries to accomplish there what we've accomplished.
So, are we fighting for American freedom right now? Not so much as we are fighting for American safety, or freedom from fear. But I feel that what we've done here is not a waste. Implemented poorly, maybe. But not a waste.
Who wrote the intelligence that Powell used as a basis for that U.N. speech ?
The truth is, Al Gore started demanding war with Iraq around 1992. Along with most of the Democrat party. (Kerry, both Clintons...) Once Clinton signed the Iraq regieme change papers the U.N. put in front of him, there was no more need to debate.
It wasn't until the actual invasion that the democrats started voicing disapproval.
Even then, after the 2006 mid-terms, the Democrat-led congress approved every war funding bill put in front of them.
And perhaps we did inspire some countries to overthrow their oppressive leaders, seemingly only to replace them with brutal Islamo-facists.
If you are honest, you have to be angry at both parties. This is a bi-partisan war, with complicity from the U.N..
This is one point in which we agree. I have said before and say again that President George Bush should have been impeached at a minimum and brought up on war crimes against humanity at the best. I find it hard to understand how what the President and his administration did is much different then the Bosnia war crimes as the end result is the same with thousands of innocents murdered without justification. Because of his actions over 100,000 Iraqis have been slaughtered not to mention the US men and women and the costs to the tax payer when there was absolutely no justification for the war.
Woody you have been brain washed.
How funny that you would say this a mere five hours after starting your apology thread...
Seriously, what is wrong with you?
What, you don't think God wants us to bash one another over political differences and divergent opinions? Come on, you need to stop taking your Bible so seriously. /end sarcasm :thumbs:
But Woody's active duty military, and therefore is less deserving of an apology or Christian behavior than an atheist who's motive is to make fun of Christians.
There were no grounds for impeachment then and there's not any now.
Bush convinced Americans that his crimes against truth, the U.S. Constitution, and the Geneva Conventions were necessary measures in the "war against terrorists."
President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney should have been indicted for “torturing, for spying, for arresting without warrant.”