Collins on Augustine

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by quantumfaith, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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  2. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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  3. quantumfaith

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  4. beameup

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    For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions,
    or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist
    Colossians 1:16-17
     
  5. quantumfaith

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  6. Rippon

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    Is it possible to sum up some points? I don't have access to Youtube.
     
  7. quantumfaith

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    In my own words....Collins is simply warning against being to overly confident about having the words and and understanding of the creation narrative. He is referencing one of Augustines works "On the Literal Meaning of Genesis".

    Here is a snipped section which I think communicates Dr. Collins point, btw, the video is only slightly over 1 minute.

    In his literal interpretation, however, he’s trying to understand what Genesis really says. He’s not searching for either an analogy (the figurative meaning) or a purely literal meaning (what we now would call literalism or fundamentalism), but is instead querying the text about what it means. And for Augustine, it was vital that we understood this text in an intelligent way. He repeatedly warns against interpretations that defy the clear evidence of the sciences. He was extremely concerned that foolish Christians reading scripture too literally would bring discredit on the entire faith. His warning is one we still do well to heed:
    “Whenever … [non-Christians] catch out some members of the Christian community making mistakes on a subject which they know inside out, and defending their hollow opinions on the authority of our books, on what grounds are they going to trust those books on the resurrection of the dead and the hope of eternal life and the kingdom of heaven, when they suppose they include any number of mistakes and fallacies on matters which they themselves have been able to master either by experiment or by the surest of calculations?” St. Augustine, The Literal Meaning of Genesis (I.19.39)
    Augustine rejected interpretations which defied the science of his day. If something in scripture contradicts a settled fact, then the job of the exegete is to arrive an reasonable interpretation of the passage. There can be no contradiction between two certainties. Where one is certain, the other must yield, whether that yielding takes place in the realm of science or scriptural interpretation. In the following centuries, both St. Thomas Aquinas and Galileo would cite the arguments developed by Augustine in these pages.


    Snipped from:
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godand...-asking-the-hard-questions-atheists-dont-ask/
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    While I deeply respect your views on many subjects -- we are copacetic on several biblical points -- I can't embrace that which requires far more faith to accept than does the biblical account of creation. Dr. Collins asks us, in the video, to "embrace the truths we are learning from science." My problem with that statement is, thee is no truth coming from science. It is all conjecture, theory elevated to the level of "proof," that lacks credibility for its lack of honesty.

    I understand your viewpoint better thanks to the video, and thank you for posting it. But I still can't accept it. No offense. :thumbsup:
     
  9. quantumfaith

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    No offense taken....at all. This is precisely HOW one should disagree. Thanks for your honesty, candor and respect.
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    A plain and literal rending of genesis would tell us though that God created all things by Himself directly, from out of nothing, he caused all to now exist, and that he authored life upon the earth, and that all species were xreated by Him fully intact, as there were in the original dogs the dns for all breeds to come, same with the cats etc!
     
  11. quantumfaith

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    Dr. Collins (and I) would agree with about 98% of what you said. Though I really should not speak for him. But I guess you got the message from the clip
     

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