Colossians 2:15-17 Why feast the Sabbath?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Colossians 2:16-17 is always applied in dogma as a key-text against the Sabbath while in fact Paul presupposes Christ's triumph in resurrection from the dead (15) the inevitable and most natural basis for the Body of Christ's feasting her Sabbath Days - thus supplying the absolute counter-proof of Sunday-observance on the grounds of Jesus' resurrection.
     
  2. RebelBaptist

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    The above did not make any sense at all.
     
  3. prophecynut

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    Those being judged at Colosse were probably Jewish Christians who were unwilling to give up the observance of certain requirements of the law. They were not yet clear as to the status of OT regulations under the new covenant and Christ's fulfillment of these legalistic requirements.

    "Christ's triumph in resurrection from the dead" cancelled out the accusations of the law against the Christian and disarmed the demonic powers of their authority.

    The ceremonial laws of the OT were shadows or symbolically depicted the coming of Christ; so any insistence on their observance is a failure to recognize that their fulfillment has already taken place.

    Since we died with Christ to the basic principles of the law, "why , as thought you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch! (vs.20-21)
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Paul does not argue that they should not be observed. RAther Paul argues the same point that Christ argues in Matt 7 that judging others is forbidden. He also points to the fact that the shadow ceremonial Sabbaths -- rooted in sacrifice -- pointed forward to Christ as "shaddows" of what was to come in the sacrifice of the Messiah.

    The point being that instead of being concerned about how others will judge you regarding a ceremonial Sabbath - it was much better to fix your eyes on "The WORD" which is Christ in BOTH the OT and NT!

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. prophecynut

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    Are you weak in the faith, are you a Jew who recently came to know Christ? If so, then I should not judge you according to Scripture for your Sabbath observence.

    Are you a long time Gentile Christian who feels Saturday "more sacred than another" and are "convince in (your) own mind" of it, then I should not judge you.

    Are you forceful and insistent that others who observe Sunday change to the Sabbath, then I'm coming against you with the WORD and judge you?
     
  6. BobRyan

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    You are doing some bad things to Romans 14 bro!

    I am simply saying that Christ the Creator should be honored INCLUDING the day HE sanctified and made holy.

    People are free to take it or reject it.

    I personnally choose to honor Christs day that HE SAID He made holy and that HE says ALL MANKIND will honor in the New Heavens as "ALL MANKIND COMES BEFORE ME to Worship from SABBATH to SABBATH".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Maybe! But just listen to this: "And having spoiled principalities and powers ... triumphing over them in it (Christ's resurrection verse 12b), LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU in feasting ("eating or drinking") or in respect of eating and drinking _OF_ feast, _OF_ month's, or _OF_ Sabbaths' Days".
    If that doesn't make sense to you, what will?
     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Since with and in Christ the basic principles of God's Law was nailed to the cross and thus in Him were abolished as He was abolished - thus were 'fulfilled', made true, made believeable, made true, the type in the Antitype. That's why the Christian is the one who really believes all the (OT) Law - and the Jews who reject Christ in fact therewith reject the Law and don't believe one bit of it!
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Quoting Prophecynut where he identifies demonic powers and God's Law: "Christ's triumph in resurrection from the dead" cancelled out the accusations of the law against the Christian and disarmed the demonic powers of their authority."

    Ja sure, it is not what you meant; it is what you said.

    Not so with God's word - there's no "probably's" with it. In Colossians Paul writes of all law and of all demonic powers against, contrary, God's People - not for them. In Colossians "the world" - not Jews, issued proclamation against the happy Christians Sabbaths'-celebrating for reason of Christ's victory. That is undenable. That is all I am able to understand from this text - and Christ and God be honoured!
     
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Quoting Prophecynut, saying, "The ceremonial laws of the OT were shadows or symbolically depicted the coming of Christ; so any insistence on their observance is a failure to recognize that their fulfillment has already taken place."

    "A failure" - that is to judge, friend! But I don't mind - I'm judged for making Christ and Christ in His resurrection - 'my' Law (if a mortal could)! Christ in triumph of resurrection-Life is REASON - is LAW - why the Christians (not the Jews) of Colossus (I see you Americans spell the word 'Colossae') "FEASTED Sabbath's Days". Rejoice with me in Jesus Christ - it would make of Sabbath's Days the indispensible and the inevitable. It was spontaneous; not artificial! It was inscribed and prescribed in and by the Word: the Lamb STANDING as being slaughtered. No better authority needed!
     
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Quoting Prophecynut who wrote, "Since we died with Christ to the basic principles of the law, "why , as thought you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch! (vs.20-21)".

    First: in context this is a vastly different thing Paul talks about several verses back, and in contrast, about!
    Second: this in essence are two opposites: "Feasting = eating and drinking of Sabbaths'Days" and "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"
    You unlike Paul, don't put them contrary each other, but identifies them!
    The one is of the world; the other is of Christ's "fulfilment". The one is the party who did the judgement and denouncement - the 'principalities' and 'principles' of the "kingdom of darkness"; the other was of those who were the judged and denounced for feasting Sabbaths' Feast - the Church in Colossae.
    Discern correctly!
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Paul does not argue that they should not be observed. RAther Paul argues the same point that Christ argues in Matt 7 that judging others is forbidden. He also points to the fact that the shadow ceremonial Sabbaths -- rooted in sacrifice -- pointed forward to Christ as "shaddows" of what was to come in the sacrifice of the Messiah.

    The point being that instead of being concerned about how others will judge you regarding a ceremonial Sabbath - it was much better to fix your eyes on "The WORD" which is Christ in BOTH the OT and NT!

    IN Christ,

    Bob
    </font>[/QUOTE]Paul doesn't talk about Old Testament Feasts, but about NT Christians who "feast (their Sabbaths) Feasts whether of month's or of (weekly) Sabbath's".
    He argues pro-the-judged on the grounds of Christ's 'fulfilment' or "victory" - verse 15. Everybody seems to forget the BASIS of and for Paul's animadversion!

    Paul does not argue that Sabbaths should not be observed; neither does he argue the same point that Christ argues in Mt.7, that believers shouldn't judge ONE ANOTHER! Paul argues one thing: the point the Christians had every reason to FEAST their Sabbath Days seeing Christ rose from the dead triumphing over every principality against them!
    Paul nowhere argues the ceremonial laws of the OT were shadows that symbolically depicted the coming of Christ; he takes the Christ that had come and that had come up from the dead again, as his point of departure to deny anyone in or of the world the claim to judge the Christians in doing what not only comes naturally because of its Cause, but what because of its Cause has become the new and absolute and final Law for and of it!
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Ceremoniality is of the essence of what Paul says should not be judged - implying, should be honoured! That ceremoniality was the Church, "eating and drinking - spiritually - "of (Christian) Feast". It means Congregationally to by observance of Sabbaths and Lord's Supper to enjoy Christ. Paul is specific, in other words, and practical. This is the Fourth Commandment in New Testament form and content - Content with a capital letter, seeing it should be Jesus Christ.
     
  14. prophecynut

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    Ditto.
     
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Ditto. </font>[/QUOTE]Ja well. Then you must 'understand' Paul says don't be judged (o Christian) because you still (in unbelief) observe Sabbaths etc of OT times therewith denying Christ. You think Paul would? I'm sure you won't!
    Or you must 'understand' Paul tells the "present evil world" (his words!), Judge the Christians, condemn them for feasting Sabbaths "because" (Paul's own word) Jesus "triumphed in it" (Paul's own words, once more)!
    Or do you have an alternative for Paul's words, word for word: "For He triumphed (in resurrection from the dead) over principalities ... THEREFORE do not you let yourselves be judged by ANYONE with regards to your eating or drinking (= "feasting") neither with regards to (it) OF feasts', whether of month's, or of Sabbaths'!"

    I have never heard of an alternative except the two first attempts - both which FAIL in every respect. Paul's own words allow the only alternative. And I know why IT seems so incomprehensible - for the one and only reason we - Christians - have been so indoctrinated that that may never be his meaning!

    This Scvripture poses a challenge to this very Christianity to deal honestly with the Word of God. It should be a challenge to you too, if you're an honest Christian.
     
  16. Claudia_T

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    Romans 14:
    4: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
    5: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

    Notice that the entire chapter is on judging one another (Verses 4,10,13). The issue here is not over the seventh-day Sabbath which was part of the great Moral law, but over the yearly feast days of the ceremonial law.

    Jewish Christians were judging Gentile Christians for not observing them. Paul is simply saying, "Don't judge each other. That ceremonial law is no longer binding".


    Collosians 2:
    14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    Does Collosians 2_14-17 do away with the seventh-day Sabbath? Not at all. It refers only to the sabbaths which were "a shadow of things to come" and not to the seventh-day Sabbath.

    There were seven yearly holy days, or holidays, in ancient Israel which were also called sabbaths. These were in addition to, or "beside the sabbaths of the Lord" (Leviticus 23:38), or seventh-day Sabbath.

    These all foreshadowed, or pointed to, the cross and ended at the cross.

    God's seventh-day Sabbath was made before sin entered, and therefore could foreshadow nothing about deliverance from sin. That's why Collosians chapter 2 differentiates and specifically mentions the sabbaths that were "a shadow". These seven yearly sabbaths which were abolished are listed in Leviticus chapter 23.
     
  17. Claudia_T

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    The devil has been trying to get preachers to say that God's ten commandments have been done away with. But when will it ever be right to break God's sixth, eighth, or ninth commandments and kill, steal or lie? All ten stand or fall together because it's a sweet love relationship between you and God. If you break one, you break them all (James 2:10, 11). It's like two lovers — its either all or nothing.


    Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17, 18. Heaven and earth haven't passed away yet. It's true that we are saved by God's free grace and not by our obedience (Ephesians 2:8). I praise God that His salvation is a free gift which we can receive by simple faith. It's also true that if a person willfully, persistently disobeys God, it shows that he really doesn't love God enough to obey Him, and hasn't received this free gift. He hasn't been born again. God's true people will be obedient, happy people who love Him so much that they would rather die than sin against Him anymore! Obedience becomes a joy when you're walking with Jesus!


    It's new to many people that Moses received more than one set of laws. On the first trip up the mountain, God gave him the ten commandments which He says will stand forever. At another time Moses received the ceremonial law. This law regulated the killing of animals. It was "added because of sin" and pointed forward to the sacrifice of the Son of God on the cross. It was to keep fresh in the people's minds that some day the real sacrifice for sin would come. The innocent little lamb represented "The Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. Since Jesus really came and died for us, it's easy to see that this ceremonial law is no longer needed.


    There was another set of laws that God gave to His people. They were the health laws as found in Leviticus 11, and Deuteronomy 14. Because of these, God's people were the healthiest people in the world! They didn't get the horrible diseases of the other nations, or even like we have in our world today. Since our stomachs and bodies are the same as theirs, those who follow these wise, and scientific health laws today also reap the delightful benefits. They just don't get the terrifying cancer, heart attack, etc., like others. Our God is so kind! It makes you fall in love with that lovely person — Jesus.


    It was the ceremonial law of Moses that was done away with on the cross. This law had animals sacrifices, meat and drink offerings, and seven ceremonial sabbaths that rotated through the year and fell on various days of the week.


    All of this pointed forward to the death of the Saviour on the cross and is of no value to us now. These ceremonial meat and drink offerings, new moons and sabbath days were a "shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Colossians 2:16, 17. They were all a "shadow" of the cross. Paul calls it the "handwriting of ordinances" and makes it clear that it was "nailed to His cross." Colossians 2:14. I'm glad that we don't have to kill animals anymore aren't you? The seven ceremonial sabbaths that rotated through the year were abolished with the rest of the ceremonies and were totally separate from the "Sabbath of the Lord" that came every week. Not only does God want His people to observe His weekly Sabbath here on earth in a happy relationship with Himself, but the Bible says that we will still be keeping it even in heaven! Isaiah 66:22, 23.
     
  18. Claudia_T

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    THE CEREMONIAL LAW
    AND
    THE TWO COVENANTS

    The distinction between the Moral law of God (the ten commandments), and the ceremonial law is plain.
    Look carefully at the difference in the two. The one with animal sacrifices was nailed to the cross, the other will stand forever.

    10 Commandments

    1) Is called the "royal law" James 2:8.


    2) Was spoken by God.
    Deuteronomy 4:12, 13.

    3) Was written with the
    finger of God. Exodus 31:18.

    4) Was placed in the ark.
    Exodus 40:20, Hebrew 9:4.

    5) Is to "stand forever and ever.
    Psalms 111:7, 8.

    6) Was not destroyed by Christ.
    Matthew 5:17 & 18.

    Ceremonial Law

    1) Is called the law contained in
    ordinances. Ephesians 2:15.

    2) Was spoken by Moses.
    Leviticus 1:1-3.

    3) Was written by Moses in a
    book. 2 Chronicles 35:12.

    4) Was placed in the side of the
    ark. Deuteronomy 31:24-26.

    5) Was nailed to the cross.
    Colossians 2:14.

    6) Was abolished by Christ.
    Ephesians 2:15.

    The two great commandments are "Love the Lord with all thy heart and all thy soul and all thy mind." The second great commandment is "Love your neighbor as yourself." God's ten commandments are hanging on these two. The first four, on the first table, tell us how to love God with all our heart. (Have no other Gods, not worship images, not take God's name in vain, and remember His Sabbath day to keep it holy). the last six, on the second table deal with loving our neighbor as ourselves. (To honor our parents, not kill, not commit adultery, not steal, not lie, not covet).

    THE OLD AND NEW COVENANTS

    The old covenant was ratified by the blood of animals (Exodus 24:5-8 and Hebrews 9:19,20) and based upon the promises of the people that they would keep God's law.
    The new covenant is based on God's promise to write His law in our hearts and it was ratified with the blood of Christ. (Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 31:33, 34).
    Hebrews 8:10 — "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people."
     
  19. Claudia_T

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    ...there. That ought to explain things [​IMG]
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Maybe what say is true; yet totally besides the point! Paul nohow treats on different covenant or whatever; he simply considers a status quo - of Christians being summoned before the law and powers of the world because of their faith in Christ crucified and risen to the effect that the believers feast their Sabbath Days, which, although not the Essence - which is Christ - well "spectres things a-coming, even the Body which is of Christ's Own", the Church - not a shadow of shadows! This Body "a-coming" Paul sees as "growing with the increase of God". The Sabbath Days were the fore-shadowing and INDICATOR of this Entity of which the Essence is Christ Himself He being its HEAD!
    How Judaism can confuse simple faith!
     

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