Colossians 3:8

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by LRL71, Feb 12, 2005.

  1. LRL71

    LRL71
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    In a discussion within our cell group on Thursday nights, my cell group pastor had a question about what the meaning of "αισχρολογιαν" (filty speech, obscene language) was in this passage. Does this apply to everyday 'vulgar' language, or possibly could it mean 'demeaning and abusive' and profane language? This word is used only once in the Greek NT, and is used only nine other times in classical Greek works, so it's hard to pin down the meaning. Any thoughts out there?
     
  2. IveyLeaguer

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    Yeah, but that's all it is, a thought, since I am no textual critic. The NASB and NET translate it "abusive" speech or language, the ESV translates it "obscene talk", and the HCSB "filthy language". The Geneva says "cursed speaking, filthy speaking". Thayer's dictionary defines it as "foul speaking, low and obscene speech", and Strong's as "vile conversation, filthy communication".

    Certainly filthy, vile, and obscene talk can be abusive, but I would say it is broader than that. It would surely include 'everyday' vulgarity, as you say, but I suspect that is not broad enough, either. It's meaning would likely incorporate vulgarity and abusive speech, but also include other obscenities and filthy communications, not necessarily restricted to speech, and those with dark, sexual, overtones. IMHO, this is one case where the KING JAMES gets the idea across about right when it says "filthy communication".
     
  3. Craigbythesea

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    Αισχρολογιαν is a compound Greek word, αισχυνω (verb) or αισχυνπ (noun) = shame + λογος = word. Although the compound form is found only in Col 3:8 in the New Testament and not at all in the LXX, the verb αισχυνω, used interchangeably with επαισχυνω and κατααισχυνω, is found in the active voice in the sense to “to shame” or “bring to shame” in a number of places in both the LXX and the N.T.

    Although Chrysostom and many modern commentators understand the word in the sense of “obscene talk,” the word is used by Polybius and Plato in the sense of “abusive language.” Taking into consideration the use of the simple verb αισχυνω, I would be inclined to see the meaning in Col. 3:8 to be speech that would be abusive and bring shame to the person being spoken to. Although obscene talk may embarrass the person being spoken to, it does not bring shame to that person, but rather the speaker brings shame upon himself. Furthermore, I see obscene talk more adequately addressed in v. 5,

    5. Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. (NASB, 1995)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. LRL71

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    Thanks everyone who responded so far. I was aware of the compound usage of αισχυνω and λογος, where the word αισχρολογιαν is a genitive plural noun. I found two instances from other Classical/Koine Greek literature that used the word (Xenophon: "Minor Works, Constitution of the Lacedaemonians" and Epictetus "The Encheiridion", both of which were stated in the Liddell and Scott lexicon). Epictetus' work is contemporary with the writing of the NT (late 1st century to the early 2nd century), and the usage in this text is in line with CraigbytheSea's definition. It is quite interesting that Paul used this word-- only once-- and having 'mined' out of the Scriptures the meaning of αισχρολογιαν was a fascinating excercise.
     
  5. Phillip

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    I just thought I would show a comparison of what other translators thought:

    Col 3:8

    (ALT) But now you* yourselves also put off [fig., cease from] all these [things]: anger, rage, malice, blasphemy, [and] obscene language out of your* mouth.

    (BBE) But now it is right for you to put away all these things; wrath, passion, bad feeling, curses, unclean talk;

    (CEV) But now you must stop doing such things. You must quit being angry, hateful, and evil. You must no longer say insulting or cruel things about others.

    (Darby) But now, put off, *ye* also, all these things, wrath, anger, malice, blasphemy, vile language out of your mouth.

    (DRB) But now put you also all away: anger, indignation, malice, blasphemy, filthy speech out of your mouth.

    (EMTV) But now you yourselves are to put off all these: wrath, anger, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.

    (ESV) But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.

    (GB) But now put ye away euen all these things, wrath, anger, maliciousnes, cursed speaking, filthie speaking, out of your mouth.

    (GNT) νυνὶ δὲ ἀπόθεσθε καὶ ὑμεῖς τὰ πάντα, ὀργήν, θυμόν, κακίαν, βλασφημίαν, αἰσχρολογίαν ἐκ τοῦ στόματος ὑμῶν·

    (GNT-TR) νυνι δε αποθεσθε και υμεις τα παντα οργην θυμον κακιαν βλασφημιαν αισχρολογιαν εκ του στοματος υμων

    (GNT-WH+) νυνι3570 ADV δε1161 CONJ αποθεσθε659 V-2AMM-2P και2532 CONJ υμεις5210 P-2NP τα3588 T-APN παντα3956 A-APN οργην3709 N-ASF θυμον2372 N-ASM κακιαν2549 N-ASF βλασφημιαν988 N-ASF αισχρολογιαν148 N-ASF εκ1537 PREP του3588 T-GSN στοματος4750 N-GSN υμων5216 P-2GP

    (KJV+) But1161 now3570 ye5210 also2532 put off659 all these;3956 anger,3709 wrath,2372 malice,2549 blasphemy,988 filthy communication148 out of1537 your5216 mouth.4750

    (KJV-1611) But now you also put off all these, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemie, filthy communication out of your mouth.

    (LITV) But now, you also, put off all these things: wrath, anger, malice, evil-speaking, shameful speech out of your mouth.

    (UPDV) but now do you+ also put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, railing, shameful speaking out of your+ mouth:

    (YLT) but now put off, even ye, the whole--anger, wrath, malice, evil-speaking, filthy talking--out of your mouth.
     
  6. LRL71

    LRL71
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    Phillip,

    Hey, now that's cool! I had gone to about five different translations, but this one takes the cake! [​IMG]
     
  7. Phillip

    Phillip
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    Just go to e-sword.net and download the software and translations you want. Pick a verse and hit compare. Its great....looks like I worked for two hours digging through Bibles. :D

    By the way, the HCSB and ESV are royalty free downloads. I don't know how they pulled that off, but its nice. Plus they now have the Geneva and AV1611 (real 1611). [​IMG]
     
  8. rjprince

    rjprince
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    Phillip,

    I was reading all the trs you posted and guessing that you were using e-sword, particularly when I saw strongs numbers in the text of the KJV+. Cut and paste is a wonderful tool! Good job.
     
  9. Phillip

    Phillip
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    Yes, and I also like the "comparison" feature. No multiple searches. A nice piece of software.

    I used to use online Bible, but e-sword surpassed them IMO in not only features, but also translations and commentaries. I believe it is actually easier to use, too.
     
  10. rjprince

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    I like a "keystroke" approach as much as possible. E-sword makes me reach for the mouse too much IMO. But I do use E-sword for the ref material that OLB does not have.
     
  11. LRL71

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    I went to another website (something to do with an 'online lexicon' of the Greek NT) and was able to find the Liddell & Scott Greek Lexicon, which was like mining for gold!

    Anyway, I'm about to speak to my cell group pastor regarding all that's been discussed here!

    Thanks, everyone! [​IMG]
     
  12. rjprince

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