Columbia Evangelical Seminary

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by spartacus, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. spartacus

    spartacus
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    I am wanting opinions of Columbia Evangelical Seminary. I think what Ric has done is pretty ingenious. CES offers a non accredited degree but is overseen directly in each course by a person holding an accredited degree in the field of study. I believe they call it mentor learning.

    I understand the differences of accredited and non-accredited schools. I suppose I am asking in regard to non-accredited schools where does CES rank?
     
  2. TCGreek

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    1. Spartacus, you're going to get mix reviews on CES.

    2. From another post, you say you have two accredited, recognizable degrees, and that accreditation is not a huge factor in taking your next step.

    3. Some on BB will tell you that if a school is not accredited, stay away from it. Others are going to tell you that there are some good non-accredited schools like Whitefield, LBU, etc. Then others are going to tell you go to SA.

    4. My point is, while I think an accredited school is probably best for what you have in mind, the decision is ultimately yours. An accredited school will more than likely keep a standard of excellence.
     
  3. spartacus

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    Thanks but I would still like to know what people think about it. I am trying to work through my thinking. This is a very different kind of education and with all accrediting degree carrying people for the level they are teaching.

    What I am looking for has yet to be revealed by me. I do not intend to teach at doctoral level. If I were to teach I would use my graduate degree in leadership or education. I am looking to do some serious study in a field and I want something from it that is somewhat creditable to show that I have gone beyond master level.
     
  4. Broadus

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    I have no first or even second hand knowledge of CES, but I think the concept is intriguing. My question is kind of quality control one. What oversight is in place to ensure that the prof is providing the necessary oversight and is requiring credible work? For instance, my own dissertation had to go through my PhD supervisor, two other professors on my doctoral committee, as well as a professor from another seminary.

    I would also encourage you to check out the South Africa possibilities. I think they are more widely accepted than CES (this is not a knock against CES, just what I have seen). PM UZThD. I'm sure he'll give you solid guidance.

    Best,
    Bill
     
  5. UZThD

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    I would also encourage you to check out the South Africa possibilities. I think they are more widely accepted than CES (this is not a knock against CES, just what I have seen). PM UZThD. I'm sure he'll give you solid guidance.

    Best,
    Bill[/quote]

    ===

    I would encourage anyone who is on a limited budget, who has an accredited masters including an academic thesis and who desires a credible doc to consider:

    South African Theoloical Seminary, just recently approved to offer the Dth in two areas,or,
    Unizul, or,
    Unisa, or
    Potch,or
    one of the several other SA schools approved by SAQA. Probably in any, the degree would take three years at a cost of under $5000. Mine was about $3000. The doctoral committee in my case included reps from three accredited public universities.

    Some might suppose that a public unversity like Unisa or Unizul might be preferable to a private school as SATS.

    IMO the first two are easy for "foreigners" to deal with.

    My criticism of the SA system is that IMO a one or two year masters done by thesis not classes may be insufficient preparation to write a dissertation. In my case I had more.

    As for CES, I have reasons for mixed feelings which can be read on another CES thread. But would prefer it over Bethany of Dothan.
     
    #5 UZThD, Aug 24, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2007
  6. Rhetorician

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    UZ ThD Response and Question

    Hello my dear colleague!

    Tell me what and how you know about the South African Theological Seminary getting accreditation to do the ThD?

    Please let me know the place(s) where you found the information. I might be "in the mood" to inquired about such a degree.

    And for what it is worth (FWIW), I am a tutor for the CES programs if anyone is interested?

    To God be the glory!

    sdg!:applause:

    rd

    rd
     
  7. TomVols

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    CES serves many very well. It's program structure is (IMHO) more conducive to training ministers than the South African program structures on the master's level.
     
  8. UZThD

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    #8 UZThD, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2007
  9. UZThD

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    sorry for the double post. my PC is possessed
     
  10. Rhetorician

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    UZ ThD Response & Observation

    Hey Bill,

    Have you ever talked to Josh Walston (sp?) @ CES about his doctorate? He too has one of his degrees from an SA school I believe? I think it is Portsch..... whatever.

    You could mentor there and exercise your gifts, education, and ministry. It looks like (to me) that that would be of benefit to both of you. I know that the two of you are not on the same page theologically seeing as he is from the Charismatic/Pentecostal camp. But it might be worth a look see?!

    Just a thought!

    sdg!:thumbsup:

    rd
     
  11. UZThD

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    ===

    Hi Roger

    You are kind to recommend that ; perhaps I will. My hands hurt after sitting on them so long.


    *** PLEASE give me your candid opinion: Is it wrong when seeking work with a school to say, as I recently did with one, " Look, I get teacher pension and Social Security and so do not need $$$ to serve God and His Church!" Will the school think that if I ask for nothing, I must be worth nothing???***


    I spoke with Ric/Josh in 2000 when I was trying to decide where to do a doc. He was familiar with the near to CES , Western, where I did the ThM, so he said he'd be my mentor if I wished. I also spoke to him about a year ago to update his Guide re Faith/Salem. Now, my tail is between my legs because F/S folded. Always found him helpful.

    BTW, I am not a cessationist which may make me a rare Conservative Baptist. I see no Biblical evidence, neither does Wayne Grudem, that there cannot be charismata today. But I do have great doubt that everyone who claims a gift has a gift!! Sometime I'll tell the story, old guys like to tell stories, about the "Prophets of Eastside" whom I knew :)

    Regards,

    Bill G
     
    #11 UZThD, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2007
  12. Rhetorician

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    UZ ThD Response

    Bill,

    I believe that it is not necessarily wrong, but "a workman is worthy of his hire!" They do not just get your degree--they get the education, experience, and expertise that goes with the degree. They should pay the fair market price of what the market can stand.

    Secondly, can you say some more about the SATS's new doctoral program please? That is, if you know anything more?

    My dilemma is this! I am in a place betwixt two, as Paul says:

    On the one hand I would like to have one more academic degree than I have, for no other reason than for personal issues.

    On the other hand:

    I am teaching full time and start my 10th year at a small, Baptist, niche, & RA college.

    I teach the same courses over and over again but that is OK.

    I have picked up three courses @ Union U--two Bachelor's level and one Master's level--this year. And I have had to turn down two other opportunities for them.

    I have also taught an on line Church History with Liberty on the Bachelor's level. And they want me to do 2, 3, to 4 courses every 8 weeks for them.

    And, on top of all of that I have a book project on John A. Broadus about to come out.

    I have been asked to give a paper that comes our of the book at a symposium at my Alma Mater with university presidents and seminary presidents.

    And, on top of that I have another book project started that is taking off faster than I thought it would.

    Do I need to take on another doctorate at the age of 56? I don't know? Will writing and being published not make a contribution to the Kingdom's work just as much (more?) as another degree? Can I do one more doctorate with this wife God gave me? I don't know? Will she divorce me for even asking or seeking another credential? :laugh: I don't know?

    Really, I don't know if I had another doctorate what good it would do me? I don't know whether I am trying to talk myself into doing another degree or talk myself out of it?

    Go figure!?

    Anyway, I am glad that "my gift has finally made a place for me!" Just the ramblings of an old man "whose learning has made him mad!"

    sdg!

    rd
     
  13. UZThD

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    #13 UZThD, Aug 25, 2007
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  14. Broadus

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    Rhet,

    Please allow me to weigh in univited. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't worry about another doctorate. What purpose would it serve? I think you are doing and contributing as you ought.

    The only way I would consider it, if I were in your situation (which, of course, I am not so it is easy to give the advice! ;)), is if I wanted to research something that could serve a larger purpose than the acquisition of another degree.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
  15. spartacus

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    UZ, did you have to go to SA to defend your Dessertation? That's another $2000. I was invited to preach in SA but couldn't or didn't raise the money to get myself there. It was actually a $3000 round trip.
     
  16. UZThD

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    answered above
     
  17. Paul33

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    I'm kicking around the idea of getting another doctorate myself. My wife works three days a week as a nurse and I teach online classes at two universities. My load is similar to Rhet's. Six sessions per sememster at one university and three courses per semester at the other. In addition I pastor a church.

    I'm thinking of resignng the church to pursue a Ph.D. in history or religion at Arizona State University. The carreer goal would be to teach religion or history at a community college and be among the unbelievers. I would continue teaching online.

    The question is, do I need a Ph.D. to pursue my career goals? Probably not. I currently have a D.Min. in historical theology. I only need a master's degree to teach at a community college.

    Yet I seem to have this burning need to do a Ph.D.

    What think ye?
     
  18. spartacus

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    "Do seminaries have copyright to the dissertations when it accepted by them?

    In other words, if one writes a dissertation and then wishes to publish it or modify it for publishing, can they do so with Seminary permission?
     
  19. UZThD

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    ===


    no
     

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