Featured Coming back to the Baptist:Help!

As usual BJ, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Would agree with you that liberal theology hit their group quite hard, as princeton University was once a Findamental theologically seminary for them, but was undermined by liberal views...

machen did an expose on that in the 1930's I believe, how his church was going from conservative to liberal view points..

When i think presby though, think Reformed scholarsand those like james d kennedy, and a J Vernon Mcgee!

Are you saying that reformed presby are hyper cals then?

Side note...

believe Mr Rogers was an ordained presby minister!
His sermons would be"interesting!"

 

Hyper-Calvinism is attached to Reformed Baptist churches. It is evident that Calvinism taken to the extreme goes back to Calvin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism#Hyper-Calvinism

http://www.gotquestions.org/Presbyterians.html

Here is another link showing the break down of Presbyterian churches in general:
http://www.tateville.com/churches.html

 

there is indeed a small remnant of what are called 'hyper cals" in reformed circles, but even mostreformed see them outside calvinism!

Would say that there are are "higher camp" calvinists within reformed circles, than either reformed/non reformed Baptists who hold to DoG!

 

My Dad sent an offering to the D. James Kennedy ministry regularly in addition to his tithe. He was a top notch pastor.

 

Interesting that he wa sa stauch "5 pointer", but also felt the need and must to preach and teach the Gospel to all who heard him, eh?

 

DHK,

All the Reformed Baptist Churches use the 1689 Confession of faith as declaring the things most surely believed among us.Unless you can show how anything in it is as you say...Hyper Cal......you need to correct yet another wrong statement you have posted.

Here-

http://www.arbca.com/ make your case...we will wait for it.

 

there are "high" calvinists among reformed baptists, but that does not mean that they are hyper cals!

 

I don't have to make my case in the way that you want me to.
They may indeed use the same confession, but the interpretation and application of that confession is quite another thing. I posted a given definition of what a "Hyper-calvinist" is. By that definition, let me ask you, are you a hyper-calvinist?

Do believe the gospel is freely offered to all sinners, including the non-elects?

Do you believe that the gospel should go to all people, and the duty of all the world (every person) is to trust in Christ for salvation? If you deny this, then you are (according to given definition), a hyper calvinist.

 

I have been to many of the arbca churches...not one is a hyper cal...not one..furthermore while only an association there is communication between assemblies. Hyper calvinism is not calvinism.It is not tolerated.Your statement as posted was bogus.offer proof or retract your statement.
otherwise you are guilty of bearing false witness.

 

Absolutely not. There is no truth in that at all. But why take a bunny trail?

What a lame comment from you. Calvin was an extreme Calvinist!

But again another bunny trail.

None of your links --and I read them all in detail --supported anything you claimed.

Again, you asserted "The great majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs."

In the entire listing of Presbyterian denominations you linked to, only one --the NRC, "is said to have hyper-Calvinistic tendencies." It has a membership of 10,080 with 26 congregations. That is a tiny fraction of all Presbyterian churches in America. It's even micro tiny considering all Presbyterian and Reformed churches world-wide.

Your false claims are just that --false claims.

So take back your nonsense claim that "the great majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs."

And you STILL have yet to explain your weird word soup phrase of :"reformation hyper-Calvinistic idealism."

 

"Calvinism." as the name implies came out of the Reformation with both John Calvin and John Knox being leaders of the movement in their respective nations. Thus the word "reformation." The word "reformation" has also been used more commonly today as there is a "neo-reform" movement taking place among some Baptist Churches, especially.
After Calvin, the Dutch Reformed took his Calvinistic theology, as "reformed" as it was and took it even to further extremes. They were very hard determinists in their theology.
William Carey, a Calvinist himself, grew up in an era where this hyper-calvinism festered. In spite of his burden for missions his own church tried to dissuade him from going with the belief that if God wanted the heathen saved then God would do so in his own good time, and in his own way without the help of Carey.

I know that many of the Presbyterian churches of today are somewhat like that. I know of one in particular that has closed its doors, sold its assets, due to lack of evangelization. It would not grow because it could not grow. Only when the gospel is spread will a church grow. It had to close its doors.
There are others like it.

 

I ask you to back up your nonsensical claims and you come up with zip,zero,nada.

You are surely able to comprehend easy English. Please demonstrate that "the great majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs." You gave links which offer absolutely no support. And then you come back with nothing on your own.

You have nothing. Just admit that you didn't know what you were talking about. If you can't confess to the the obvious --I will remind you in the future along with other false claims you made in the past.

 

I did give you links that had valuable information. You didn't like the information I gave you. You didn't like the way I answered your post.

Here is the reality. If you are so enthralled by your Calvinist position then why don't you take the next logical step and embrace infant baptism (the next logical step in Calvinism) and go and join a Presbyterian church. If Calvinism is right you should be a Presbyterian, after all that is what he founded, the Presbyterian Church. I have nothing more to say here. I am not a Calvinist, and don't defend it. If you embrace it so heartily join a Presbyterian church where it first originated. Why are you still a Baptist? Why haven't you embraced infant baptism yet?

 

Of course I liked and appreciated the information on your links. But the info did not back up anything you had claimed. It's a mystery why you even gave the links in the first place when the info should have dealt with your contention that the great majority of Presbyterians are hyper-Calvinists. It tells me you were careless and didn't bother reading the contents of the links yourself.

You didn't address my questions. You continually avoid and dodge my direct questions.

And in your closing paragraph you do not at all deal with my questions -- you avoid,dodge and run for the hills.

Again, you yourself have established that you have absolutely no evidence that "the majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs."

Case closed. Bailiff see this fellow out. Next case, please step forward.

 

How else can one respond to sarcasm and unbiblical ideals? And by the way, stop acting like you know anything about Presbyterianism. You would do yourself a favor by not posting.

 

I don't need to act. I know. If you think I am in error about what I said please step forward and offer documentation that indeed "the great majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs." If you can't, then why even enter the debate?

Oh, I know. You simply are being you Mike. You have this need to stir things up and evidence your spiritual immaturity.

But remember your own words:
S/N :"I really do not have a right to say anything, because of my responses in the past,but I am honestly trying to work on being more civil." 6/13/13

 

Take careful note of this book and book review. Wilson College is a Presbyterian College in Chambersberg PA.

http://presbyterianoutlook.org/revi...ristian-and-letters-to-a-young-calvinist.html

 

Here is another good link:
Hyper-Calvinists Are Not the Same as Hyper Calvinists

February 8, 2013 by Justin Taylor
Some critics of Calvinism persist in referring to the doctrines of grace as “hyper-Calvinism.” But as that great philosopher Inigo Montoya once said, “You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.”
A helpful introduction to the word and its historical context is Iain Murray’s book, Spurgeon v. Hyper Calvinism: The Battle for Gospel Preaching.
Phil Johnson has a helpful primer on the subject, offering a fivefold definition:

The definition I am proposing outlines five varieties of hyper-Calvinism, listed here in a declining order, from the worst kind to a less extreme variety (which some might prefer to class as “ultra-high Calvinism”):
A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:

1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear,
2. OR Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner,
3. OR Denies that the gospel makes any “offer” of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal),
4. OR Denies that there is such a thing as “common grace,”
5. OR Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.

All five varieties of hyper-Calvinism undermine evangelism or twist the gospel message.[/quote]
http://christchurchreformed.com/hyper-calvinists-are-not-the-same-as-hyper-calvinists/

​

 

You dare to re-enter my courtroom with no evidence. I warned you about that.

Listen, David True did not do such a fair job of reporting on Smith's book. I read 30 plus reviews of the book on Amazon. None of the reviewers mentioned anything about hyper-Calvinism. Smith's book consists of 23 fictional letters and none address the subject.

The only thing approaching the phraselogy of "the great majority" is this:

"the rampant gnosticism that characterizes North american evangelicalism." (p.103)

You're grasping at straws DHK.