Featured Coming back to the Baptist:Help!

Your efforts are futile DHK. None of the above are applicable to your failed thesis which was :"the great majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs." You have't proven anything related to that false claim of yours.

You don't have to be concerned about hyper-Calvinism rising in the ranks of Presbyterianism. However, its counterpart --Arminianism/semi-Pelagianism is increasing there almost as much as in the larger Evangelical world.

As S/N needs to heed his own advice, you must do the same.

DHK: "When a person makes a statement without evidence,then he should provide the evidence when asked for;not simply repeat his erroneous statement over and over." 9/28/11

DHK :"If you are going to make unfounded statements then you have to back them up. Please provide documentation." 2/15/12

DHK :"Don't post things here without evidence." 2/16/12

 

I do give evidence. You don't like the evidence I give.
If you denied the resurrection, then like the atheist, all the evidence in the world that I presented that would demonstrate the veracity of the resurrection you would not accept. You sit in your chair in unbelief no matter what in denial of the truth.

You are not a moderator or an administrator. Furthermore you don't own the board, but are a guest at this board. Act like one. It is a privilege to post here. Don't come on here telling others what they can or cannot do.
Once you start trying to bully people around it is you that will be finding the exit to the back door. Your statement is totally unwarranted.

None is so blind as those who cannot see. Perhaps you cannot see what hyper Calvinism is because you are caught up in this movement, and are, by definition one yourself.
Examine yourself:

Upon further reflection of the above points and what you believe, I believe you fit well into this category yourself. You have nothing more to say on this matter. Case closed.

 

I don't disagree with the links you provided;but there has been no evidence to support your claim that "the great majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs." It is really that simple.

Now you can be diversionary all you want, but that was the point I have been making all along. None of the links --and I probably read them more carefully than you -- have anything to do with your premise. Nothing.

That's quite a stretch there DHK. You should be ashamed of yourself for making that kind of comparison.

How high and lofty that sounds. But you still have not given one shred of evidence to back up your original claim. No matter how you slice it -- you have not demonstrated it. You are trying to establish a "truth" that does not exist.

Are you having an Ooops moment? I quoted you. You are funny.

It was your statement --and a fair one. "Don't post things here without evidence." I think every reasonable person would agree with that.

You see,here is where you have gone off the rails. You know how frustrating it has been to prove something that doesn't exist so you pull this canard.

And now charges are flying. Please demonstrate how that term describes me.

This is someting Phil Johnson said in the link you gave:"Both Arminians and hyper-Calvinists will protest that it is illogical or unjust to teach that God demands what sin renders us incapable of doing...Man's own inability is something he is guilty for, and that inability cannot therefore be seen as something that relieves the sinner of responsibility." Johnson goes on to say that both Arminianism and hyper-calvinism spring from the same polluted source.

"The denial that faith is the sinner's duty illustrates how hyper-Caviniism and Arminianism arise from the same false notion. The one fallacy that lies at the hert of both Arminianism and hyper-Calvinis is the erroneous assumption that human inability nullifies responsibility."

In Justin Taylor's piece he relates that "some critics of Calvinism persist in referring to the doctrines of grace as 'hyper-Calvinism.' Hyper-Calvinism undermines the gospel and should be opposed. But it should also not be used as a label against those who explicitly repudiatde it."

And DHK, I do repudiate it. And I forcefully reject your characterization of me as a ploy to detract from your lack of support for your original claim.

If you were to write a such a thesis and come up with your evasive tactics and irrelevancies it would not pass muster.

 

I already told you about Smith's book and how the subject of Hyer-Calvinism doesn't even come up. I told you that I had read more than 30 reviews of his book and there was not one iota of info on the subject-at-hand. But of course you had no response.You put out links that have no links to your premise.

I like Iain Murray's book on Spurgeon vs. Hyper-Calvinism. I know there have to be threads where I have commented on it years ago. I know Mr. Murray (as I do Phil Johnson by the way)but his book did not deal with present-day Presbyterianism and its relationship to hyper-Calvinism. And back in the 19th century you would not be able to find any hyper-Calvinistic Presbyterians --certainly CHS doesn't reference any. So much for that weak link.

Let's get down to numbers. The stats vary according to sources,so I went to various sites for these denominations.

The PSUSA is by far, the largest Presbyterian denomination in America --as well as being the most liberal (some select congregations are more conservative, but still moderate). The denomination has 1,849,496 members.
PCA : 364,019
EPC : 160,000
CPC : 87,000
ARPC : 39,687
ARP :35,472
OPC : 30,000

The CPC is overwhelmingly Arminian so no hyper-calvinism is possible there. If you add up these last six denominations you will have a total of 716,178 people. So even more than doubling the numbers for these six denominations the PSUSA reigns supreme for sheer numerical strength.

Are you willing to say that that the PSUSA,as liberal as they are, are actually hyper-Calvinistic -"a great majority"? Of course not. They are not even Calvinistic much less hyper-Calvinistic.

Do you have any evidence to support that the minority --the other six, are hyper-Calvinistic? Of course not. Their websites gave no such indication. Now I realize that a h-C is not going to be forthright and say they are -- but these groups have nothing at all to do with hyper-Calvinism. Face the facts DHK.

 

Let me address a few things.

#1 Being a Calvinistic Baptist and a Reformed Baptist are not one in the same. Reformed Baptist churches trace their history back to the English Particular Baptists of the 17th Century. While the Doctrines of Grace played a prominent role in Particular Baptist theology, there was also strong Puritan influence that revolved around confessional theology. American Reformed Baptist churches share similar doctrinal distinctives: Calvinistic soteriology, confessionalism, and a Reformed view of worship.

#2 Non-Reformed Calvinistic Baptists agree with their Reformed brethren on soteriology, but they differ on their views of worship and even ecclesiology. Many SBC churches that are Calvinistic are not Reformed. They are not confessional and have a more open view of contextualization in worship.

Some good websites to visit that can better explain Reformed Baptist distinctives are:

Confessing Baptist

Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America

What is a Reformed Baptist Church?

Spurgeon Blog

 

groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/calvinist-baptist/conversations/topics/2061

 

jerome


6 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

 

Anthony, consider the source.

 

Yea Antknee, we cant have any rocks thrown at our churches can we. They are all above reproach.

 

Jerome....for your edification, Al Martin is a man who has dedicated his life to preaching and teaching the gospel and he is a down to earth godly man. That God doesn't rise up men of Elder Martins stature throughout this country is a continued mystery to me. And why they are not more interested in church planting through America is another frustrating issue for me particularly! Right now I am assuming its a money issue however I'm not in the know. Perhaps its the same reason why they are few, if any SBC churches....simply no initiatives being put forward to spread the gospel. Its really sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdxJE18q4Z0

 

Thank you Harold for pointing out the sad irony of someone using that Scripture to make a false insinuation against me.

Anyway, here is a sixth link we can add:

Challies.com Landscape of Reformed Baptists

 

What it the world are you going on about?!! Reformed Baptists are not monolithic. After all, they are Baptists! Do you not think the same futile exercise you are doing cannot be done for any and all Baptist denominations?

What exactly is your point?

 

He is PO'd and he is lashing out. Get ahold of yourself Jerome...we may all have different doctrines, but we are all Baptist's.