Coming home to Fundamental Baptist

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Edward63, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Edward63

    Edward63
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    Raised in an IFB church. Left over certain dogmatism among various branches of fundamental Baptists. Spent a life in study and now find my fundamentals in the faith force me back home. You brethren can see an overview of my faith confession in the New Member Introduction.

    I am a believer in unmerited election of the believer based solely on the plan and purpose of God and a particular redemption for those elected alone. This is different than most Fundamental Baptists, but I hope we can fellowship as saints since we both believe in the eternal security of the believer based on the plan and power of our Triune God.

    On "soul liberty", I hold to more individual liberty than some. I appreciate the views of many on the question of alcohol, movies, mixed-swimming, TV, tobacco, etc. and can see the validity of their Scriptural reasons. But, I see how others can view it differently from Scripture in Romans 14. So, I may be more flexible here.

    I am not a Classical Dispensationalist like the Scofield I was raised with in my youth. But, I do hold to stages in the redemption story as unfolded in the Bible that I find expressed in Scripture and in interpretation, hold to these. I give them briefly as I view them.

    First, and importantly, I see God's enduring law from creation to "the last day": Gen. 26:5 existed prior to Moses and Rom. 13:9,10 is still in effect. Murder, adultery, theft, etc., were sins prior to the giving of the Decalogue and the Mosaic Law and are still sin after the Mosaic law was fulfilled, completed, abolished by Jesus Christ.

    1. A period called "ancient world" 2 Pt. 2:5 ASV which is from creation to Abraham
    2. Promise from Abraham to "the last day" which envelopes the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, Ga3:6-9,14,16,18,29
    3. Mosaic law (Old Covenant) begins with Moses Dt.4:8 and ends at the cross Col.2:14. There is NO Mosaic Law now! Never was the law for Gentiles!
    4. The "Kingdom of God" from the 1st advent and 70AD through eternity future... Mk1:15, Mt12:18; 16:28 to 1 Co. 15:24,25
    5. I identify the church and gospel age as the same as the "kingdom of God/Christ"
    (I find the 4 gospels to record Jesus living under the Old Covenant and looking forward to the New Covenant. I find Acts a transition period with heavy Jewish conflicts. In the Epistles I find statements made that are often from a Jewish perspective and I take note how often the translators add "the" before the word "law" causing confusion.)

    I do not look for a 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ from Jerusalem in the future, but if it happens, I am not going to be astonished at it. I do know it will not be a re-institution of the Old Covenant though because Jesus Christ fulfilled and completed that, ending it. I post this brief description of my belief system to try and avoid confusion and start on an even footing. I am 100% behind the poster who pointed out how many Baptist churches hide their name behind such things as "... Community Church", etc. If Baptist, state it clearly for all to see! If Fundamental Baptist as distinct from the ABC or SBC, Freewill Baptists, state it! I look forward to chatting here.
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Welcome to the Baptist Board and back to fundamentalism. :applause:
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    With all do respect, why cant you ditch some of this Fundi stuff & just consider yourself a New Testament Christian & be obedient to the Word?
     
  4. Salty

    Salty
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    Could be that some of that "Fundi stuff" is part of being a New Testament church.

    Just curious - what "Fundi Stuff" should he ditch?
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    The ones he has no use for. But thats his call.
     
  6. Edward63

    Edward63
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    Apparently Fundamental Baptist has changed over the years. I had a visit from the Pastor and another man of the church. If what they demonstrated was the Fundamental Baptist Church of today, you can have it. Let me relate the experience.

    I had given the Pastor a printed page containing pretty much what I included in my Introduction to the Forum and to this Fundamental Baptist part of the forum. I expressed that I knew we'd have differences but wished to chat to see if he could be comfortable with my beliefs in the church as well as if I could fit in.

    The man accompanying the Pastor was football player size, overbearing and arrogant. Even though I am an older man with a life as a Christian and Bible study, he proceeded to interrogate me as if he were some inquisitor. I was stunned to say the least. He asked how I knew I was "born again". I mean right out of the gate, that is his start. I explained I had been "born from above" because I was a believer. That did not satisfy him. He wanted to know how I knew I was born physically to which I replied, "I am here and I am breathing!.... I know I am in the faith because I'm a righteous man who falls 7 times and keeps getting up to go forward, not losing my faith." Still, this did not satisfy. I explained to him that his approach implied that I could somehow follow some formula to be "born again", in his words. I cannot any more born myself spiritually than I could born myself physically... it is a work of the Holy Spirit.

    It turned out that he, and the Pastor mildly in agreement, wanted to know when I prayed the sinner's prayer or made some specific confession of believing in Jesus that fit their own contrived idea of a "fits all" conversion experience. I explained that I was raised in a Christian family, did not have a Damascus Road experience where I look back as many do, and point to a time and event. I know when I asked my family if I could profess Jesus in a service and then be baptized, but that was it. I had a life of continuing faith, love of Jesus Christ and God's pure word, and that was evidence to me.

    I was so angered, yes, angered by this approach I came close to telling them both to leave my house but did tell them both I was highly offended at them! The arrogant type guy apologized and I accepted his apology. But, they left thinking I was not a "born again" Christian because I had not said a sinner's prayer or some such man-made concoction as that.

    Now, to the brother here on the forum who asked about the "fundi" approach. To me, historic, regular Baptist teaching is "Fundamental Baptist" and pure New Covenant instruction. But, what I experienced last night was anything but New Covenant. In fact, I view it as heretical as it is contrary to specific teaching of the New Covenant. Needless to say I will be seeking another Baptist assembly, possibly a GARBC that is a bit further from me. I am definitely not an SBC or Reformed Baptist, so I may just sit it out on the outside of a local church. I have gone to the Lord in prayer about this situation and it is up to Him to guide me as I see it.

    I will confess, this one on one personal experience has really shaken me to think a body of Christ is using this approach on people, but I am moving on. I will be very interested to see what response I see from those who consider themselves "Fundamental Baptists" here on the Forum. Is this common in the Independent Fundamental Baptists of this day? I needed this moment to shoot off steam! :laugh:
     
  7. Edward63

    Edward63
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    I may have misunderstood your first comment directly to my post as I see your comment here. My intention was to hold to my belief system and accept that the church and Pastor where I had started attending have other views on some things expressed in their Belief Statement. I do not agree fully with any church and most people do not. The last Independent Fundamental Baptist Church I was a member of was almost 40 years ago. That Pastor was a loving man and we could chat and discuss our differences and compare Scripture with Scripture and even though we did not agree on many things, we had the bond of Christian love and he did not doubt my salvation. I was put into shock at the church visitation experience last night, to say the least.
     
  8. Salty

    Salty
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    Edward
    Just keep in mind that IBF is just like snowflakes - there are no two alike!

    I suppose I would have asked the pastor how he knew he was saved. (and I believe that is a valid question)

    In addition, I was formerly a member of a GARB church. I am now SBC - and am very comfortable. The only big difference is how we support missionaries. The GARB - by deputation, (some 6 -36 months) and the SBC by the Co-op program -(ready for the field almost immediately). In fact some folks think the IMB and the NAMB are too conservative in selecting candidates for mission status.
    I would suggest you check out some SBC churches - because there are two things that define both IFB and SBC:
    1) they are snowflakes (no two are alike
    2) both are fully autonomous and independent!
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    I could well see why....& I appologize up front if I was being curt....Im just not accord with all that Fundimentalist churches do. Nor for that matter have I been comfortable in any church assembly for quite some time.... so perhaps my experiences are bleeding over.

    I personally would like most churches to shrink in both size & regulation because that takes their eyes off of Christ & puts it elsewhere. And while most want to say fundamentalist, Id prefer to be considered a radical--one who moves beyond the liberal & conservative branches of an institution & goes back to fundamental questioning. Thats my idea of what being a fundamentalist is, IE one that goes back to the root, the source , the fundamentals.
     
  10. Edward63

    Edward63
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    We may be similar. I am very much a biblist and while not a literalist always, I do seek to see where the Scripture explicitly states something clearly. I have come to detest with a passion how opinions and ideas are read into the words of Scripture and passed off as Bible doctrine. John 21:21-23 show that error and yet it sounded logical to those disciples. 1 Cor. 4:6 shows how going beyond what is written for us causes all the various divisions and sects. There is one problem I have and you seem to share it... I fit nowhere exactly but I do find myself closer to the Baptists of 350 years ago! There aren't any of those solid Bible believing churches around today.
     
  11. Edward63

    Edward63
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    I will try a few more churches, but I have always found the SBC nothing but religious social clubs and I am not fond of their Faith and Message or their apologizing for slavery, as if slavery were a sin.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Have you looked at the Primitive Baptists & The Old Regular Baptists....they both have representation in FLA.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty
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    :thumbs: AKA starting mission churches:love2:
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Whats AKA? ...yea ok ....just tired here. Sitting up nursing a guy with cancer.

    You will have to define mission churches for me? Are you referring to a mission board?
     
    #14 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2013
  15. Salty

    Salty
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    Say you have a church of 250 people - you take about 25 members who live in the same vicinity. On of the Associate pastors becomes pastor of the mission church. Since they are small, the mother church underwrites the expenses until the mission becomes self supporting. In the meantime, the mother church builds back up to 250 - thus time to start another mission.
     
  16. RLBosley

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    And that my friend is the reason I left the IFB crowd. I am sicked as well by the "sinner's prayer" nonsense. Welcome to the club :)

    Yes very.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    So how come I haven't seen that done out here in NW Jersey? Maybe there isn't a big enough church in the area to even accomplish this.
     
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Lot's of Primitive Baptists down South, you should google and find a Church in your vicinity and go visit. They are a simple humble loving bunch.
     
  19. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow
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    There are only three PB churches, thank God! It's like an exterminator says, you can't kill all the roaches.
     
  20. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Anti-Calvinism, the 'religion of peace'.
     

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