Commandment keeping

Amen Cutter.

Especially this portion of scripture:

 

Some people think of God as a mean old white haired man just waiting to whack people on the head with a big stick. That is not our God and certainly not a good father.



Matthew 7:9-11 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?


My Father is a good father. He may give me a good whipping from time to time, but He will NEVER disown me.

 

I can't believe that anyone would want to be judged by the law for their eternal life. That means that they cannot EVER do ANYTHING wrong and have to be absolutely PERFECT and SINLESS. Can anyone HONESTLY say that about themselves?

I like being saved by God's grace a lot better. My salvation depends on Christ's righteousness and not mine, and He is absolutely perfect and sinless. He is not just righteous; He is righteousness itself.

 

WOOOOOOOOT!!! (Baptist shout) :smilewinkgrin:

 

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If you, in your entire life, so much as break one of all the laws--613 of them if you like--just one, one time in your life that extends from birth to death, then you are cursed by the law. There is no chance for you to be saved. You are condemned, cursed.
All men are cursed that do not continue in all things that are written in the law. They must continues to obey from birth to death ALL things written in the law ALL the time. Not once can they mess up, or they are cursed for all eternity.

This is why salvation is not of the law; not of works. It is impossible to do; the law is impossible to keep.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
--Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law.
He took the penalty of the law upon himself. The law was nailed to the cross. We bear it no more. It is by grace through faith that man is saved, not by keeping the law.

 

>If you, in your entire life, so much as break one of all the laws--613 of them if you like--just one, one time in your life that extends from birth to death, then you are cursed by the law. There is no chance for you to be saved. You are condemned, cursed.

Then the OT sacrifices for unintentional sins were only nasty tricks from God?

 

I am saying that your worn-out method of trying to blame me for what you find in scripture being posted by those who differ with your traditions - is not as compelling an argument as you may have at first imagined.

Here is a small example of texts that you seem to want to "vote" on as to whether we should believe them - or perhaps you simply want to "blame me" for noticing that they do not agree with your traditions.

James 2
8If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.
9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty



Rom 3:31 NASB
"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law"[/b] Rom 3:31 NASB

The Post-cross teaching of the apostles CONTINUES to support that importance of God’s Word – God’s Commandments – and obedience rather than rebellion.


1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Heb 8
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8 For finding fault with them, He says, "" BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
…
10 "" FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: [b]I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD[/b], AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.


[/quote]



I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 NKJV/KJV/YLT
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matt 19:17
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 15:3
And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

Ephesians 6
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),

John 15:10-11 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

John 14:15 (quoting from the 10 commandments) “IF you love Me Keep My commandments”

Or maybe you were just kindly imagining that all of these Bible authors are "Seventh-day Adventists" -- :laugh:

in Christ,

Bob

 

NT Law - you mean the 1050 commands found in the NT?

http://www.puritan-books.com/books/pdf/new_testament_commands.pdf

 

Here is where we find the "can never keep the law" statement in actual scripture.

Rom 8
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are [b]in the flesh cannot please God[/b].


Thus the OSAS argument is seen "once again" to "circle back to the view of God's Law as the lost would see it" -

Hostile toward God the lost world does NOT subject itself to the Law of God and in fact "is not even ABLE to do so".

This is the view of the law that OSAS proponants seem to understand so very well and we would agree that this is exactly the view of the law that Paul says the lost world is confronted with.

Which is why Romans 8 is so important to read - along with Romans 6.

Not even close.

James 2

6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?
7 Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?


8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Instead of arguing for the non-stop rebellion, non-stop blasphemy (notice that James accusing them of inciting blasphemy against God whenever they violate God's Word) - James is arguing for obedience to the Word of God.

Never does James claim "you must rebel against God's Word because you cannot honor and obey God's word - it is beyond the saved saint to do so".

Yes that is the view of the lost towards the Law of God - because that is the role of the Law of God for the lost.

By contrast we have the "saved".


John 15:10-11 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

John 14:15 (quoting from the 10 commandments) “IF you love Me Keep My commandments”


I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Ephesians 6
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),

 

Speaking of the role of the Law in the context of the saved saints -

Romans 6
Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God


1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so thatwe would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.


10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead,
13 -and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.


14For sin shall not be master over you[/b], for you are not under law but under grace.
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin[/b], you
became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

So you are saying that Seventh-day Adventist wrote the Bible texts listed above?? Are you sure you want to go there Steaver?

in Christ,

bob

 

Steaver - is there such a thing as a bible text you will actually look at - if it does not fit your traditions? Or are you that convinced that the inconvenient parts of the Bible were actually written by Adventists?

 

In this post -
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1550735&postcount=33

What I am saying is - that Romans 6 is worth reading (as it turns out) and the text is actually true. It is speaking to saved saints who have been baptized as we see in vs 1-4.

In Romans 6 - Paul contrasts being a slave to sin and living in violation of God's Word as compared to the saints keeping God's Word.

I prefer to discuss the scripture itself - you prefer to talk about what some denomination may or may not think as if the scripture being quoted has nothing of importance to say on the subject. Not sure why you choose to avoid the text.

Notice that in the example post - the words found there start with

Thus in Romans 6 the context is the saved.

Then in that post we found this

In this case - the saved saint who then chooses to live in rebellion is a slave to unrighteousness - a slave to sin - so the chapter ends with the warning "the wages of sin is death".

The Bible does not teach that with each sin - you lose salvation. Far from it - in 1John 2:1 we find that although we are supposed to live just as Romans 6 states - without violating God's Word -- yet IF we do sin then we have an Advocate with the Father and as 1John 1:9 "IF we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins AND to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness".

Yet if instead of merely failing now and then - we choose non-stop rebellion of the form "I CANNOT obey God's Word" - well then we have the warning of Romans 6 and Romans 8 to deal with. They speak of the problem of those who DO not obey God's word and who indeed CANNOT obey His Word.

Rom 8
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God

Clearly if we "circle back" to the condition of the lost - then we all happily agree that such a person DOES not obey God's Word and indeed they CANNOT obey God's Word.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Isn't there a common argument, that once saved, God's Spirit "changes your life", and enables you to "fulfill [the spirit of] the Law", and even though you're still not perfected (because God deems slow "growth" to be better than instant perfection), then just as long as you're "bearing fruits", it shows you're really saved? The unsaved are condemned in preaching for their sins, because they didn't "repent", and "allow God to change their lives [like He did for us]". That seems to be the difference between saved and lost in such preaching.

Maybe this is primarily the sabbatarians, but I thought it was a general teaching in parts of mainstream Christianity as well. At least some Christian living books/teachers and preaching seem to echo the basic premise. (Perhaps it's a more Methodistic sort of thing. And Methodism is ultimately what spawned the sabbatarian movement, charismaticism, and many other movements).

Anyway; that's probably the line of thinking that "desires to be under the Law" (Gal.4:21). God is enabling it to keep it as much as we can, and in the Spirit; not just the letter (and persevere in it as long as we will to "abide"), and then the Cross fills in (basically) where we fail. So we "pass", basically, the Law's demands through Christ.
But it seems to me, we still wouldn't even pass under that sort of setup, and that that philosophy, while superficially acknowledging our ongoing sinfulness and need of Christ, really does smack of works-righteousness, still.

 

Matthew 7:21-22
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Hi annsni
What about the guys and gals spoken of in above scripture? They thought they were believers in Christ. Even cast out devils in the name of Jesus. Somehow, somewhere, something in the Word of God is not being followed by the "many" and "in that day" only a few will be saved. Jesus tells us that. Can you lose your salvation? I guess the question could be asked, are there many who believed they are saved and yet never were. There does come a time when the true believer is no longer under the penalty of the law. Have you been to the schoolmaster?