Communion. Is baptism required?

I think it would depend on if you believe that Baptism and the Lord's Supper are "church" ordinances, and then what your definition of the "church" is (i.e., local or universal-all christians worldwide).

I believe the scriptures clearly teach that baptism was a prerequisite to being added to the church, and if you believe that the Lord's Supper is a "Church" ordinance then all those who participate should have been baptized.

Is there anyone here who holds the belief that the Lord's Supper was given to individuals rather than the Church?

It is absolutely true that you cannot be 100% sure that any individual who partakes of the Lord's Supper is truly saved (that is between them and God), but that does not negate the fact that baptism preceded being added to the church.

In Christ,
Carpenter

 

Generally I agree. But even Paul mentioned that he did not copme to baptize but to preach the gospel. The man hanging next to Jesus was not baptized. Too often we talk to congregation in generalities when they can think of many specifics that would counter those general statements.

If I cannot judge a person's salvation then I cannot judge the valididty of their baptism either. I have had those who have come to me and told me about the time they were dunked and not really baptized. The pastor dunked them as though they were a statistic and they did not even know what baptism was all about.

When people in the NT were baptized it meant they could be executied or ostracized. It meant they were taking a public stance naming Christ as their Lord. By naming Christ as their Lord it meant they were in effect renouncing the emperor as their lord. Christ is now their master and not the emperor. For this the emperor could have them executed.

 

The last Supper was not in a Church, It was given by Jesus to his disiples . He said DO this in rememberance of me. I don't recall him saying Do this in church to remember me.

 

I see what you are saying gb, You are absolutely right that Paul didn't come to baptize because preaching the gospel so that people could hear and come to a saving knowledge of Christ was the most important thing, but did that relieve them of the responsibility of joining with a local congregation once they accepted the message of Christ?

...and yes the man on the cross was saved.. but was he a member of a Church (this depends on your belief about what the church is)? This goes back to the question: Is the Lord's Supper a Church or Individual ordinance?

I still get wrapped around the axle with the thought that baptism and the Lord's Supper are for the Church, and while you can be saved without baptism, I don't believe that you can be a member of the Church, whether it be local or universal, without having been baptized.

When a person joins a church by statement of having been saved, generally you would ask them how they were saved and we would know if the person truly knows what salvation is. But, do we consider whether or not they were baptized and how? Only God knows if someone is truly saved and we have to trust that he will protect his Church from unsincere motives. People can say whatever they want you to hear, we have to trust God.

 

You presume that a person who is not immersed as an adult not saved. I make no such assumption. You're presuming that my belief is that unsaved persons may partake in communion. That's not my stance at all. I've always felt that only saved persons can partake in communion.
1 Cor 11:27 (whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord) referrs to a person being saved. It does not support the idea that a person must be baptized in order to receive communion. However, as I said earlier, although there's not a scriptural requirement to be baptizes prior to communion, each congregation is, imo, allowed to establish certain prerequisites if they so choose (such as, being baptized, or being a member of that church, etc).

 

I agree. But in a practical sense we cannot really know for sure if a person is saved. Even Judas fooled the disciples for a time. However that does not prevent me from asking them about their salvation experience.

Several years ago I visited a lady in the church and asked her about her salvation experience. She gave me answers that led me to believe that she had an infant knowledge about salvation. When I walked away I was still not sure if she had ever made a decision. I asked her directly if she had ever made a decision. She had been full of religious experiences. But in the next few months I saw a very different person. She started going to Bible study, coming to the prayer meeting, was baptized and started helping kids grow. When she was asked about that her response was much the idea that she needed to start growing. So I assume God used my dialog with her.

About once a year I gave a sermon on why we did communion or the Lord's supper. I think it helped people to understand what it meant then and what it should mean now. Too often we do things in the church and people really don't know why we do it and why we do it the way we do.

Years ago I replanted a church and we started a tradition where we would celebrate together with a meal, have communion and then end by sharing what God was doing in our personal lives. It was a great time. People came to know Christ through those times because they saw what we did and heard what was shared. They saw Christ as real. There were some poor people and some wealthy people in that church. The poor people had a chance to eat the food of the wealthier people and the wealthy people ate the food of the poorer people. It was a time that the church looked forward to. It took away the religious distance and showed people that we were serious and real. Those times together changed my life.

 

Hi Lea!

I guess this is where we might be in disagreement because my belief is that the church is not a place but the people. I know the Greek word that we get church from (ekklesia - I think I spelled it right ) has been discussed before and it refers to being called out for a particular purpose. The disciples couldn't be any more called out than having Jesus himself tell them to follow him in his personal ministry.

My belief is that this was the first "church". I know I could be wrong in my interpretion and I'm sure there are many who disagree and believe that the first church was not established until Pentacost. I can understand that point of view, but am convicted at this point that Christ was the head of the first "church" or called out ones and that the church was empowered by the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentacost after Christ ascended to Heaven.

 

You presume that a person who is not immersed as an adult not saved. I make no such assumption. You're presuming that my belief is that unsaved persons may partake in communion. That's not my stance at all. I've always felt that only saved persons can partake in communion.
1 Cor 11:27 (whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord) referrs to a person being saved. It does not support the idea that a person must be baptized in order to receive communion. However, as I said earlier, although there's not a scriptural requirement to be baptizes prior to communion, each congregation is, imo, allowed to establish certain prerequisites if they so choose (such as, being baptized, or being a member of that church, etc). </font>[/QUOTE]OK i stand corrected. i'm sorry. I was not attempting to anger you.
thank you for the clarification.

 

No offense taken.

 

One post above says (free quotation) "Baptism is not required." Baptism is an act of obedience - generally agreed? Are you saying that obedience is not required? Certainly baptism is not essential TO SALVATION, but obedience is surely a requirement of Christian fellowship.

I Cor. 11 makes it abundantly clear that "where there are divisions ye cannot eat of the Lord's table." What are diverse views on salvation, diverse views on baptism, diverse views on church membership, other than divisions? If a person sprinkled as an infant sits beside someone who holds baptismal regeneration, and in front of them
is an "old landmarker" like myself, and behind them someone on whom water was poured after an experience of salvation, are those not divisions?
While many issues are this side of church member-ship and fellowship, surely salvation and baptism are prerequisites for both. The biblical order is always clear: salvation, baptism, church life.

Best- Bro. Charles Blair - Ro. 8:28

 

I've been in the situation where someone was saved in the morning, Lord's Supper was that evening, and they weren't scheduled to be baptized until next week, along with several others.

Nobody felt any desire at that service to withold the Lord's Supper from the new convert. He partook and it was a big deal for him, his first Lord's Supper.

 

Did not John the Baptist say that He baptizted with water but Jesus would Baptize with the Holy Spirit and Fire so doesn't Jesus baptizing us count as being baptized.