Communion

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by billwald, Dec 12, 2004.

  1. billwald

    billwald
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    This morning we had communion and used an official Christian Reformed Church liturgy. The most common word form was the personal pronoun (I, we, us . . .). That's OK in the congregation but wouldn't be quite honest if published in the local paper because the reader might assume that the personal pronouns applied to them. We would have to add the tactit "elect," we who are the elect.

    Last year we would have had to also add "elect - specifically excluding Catholics" because the Heidelberg Catechism curses Catholics. Thank God that this year our Synod retracted the curse and now admit that the Mass is "Christian." The addition would now read "We (the elect, including some Catholic elect) worship . . . ."
     
  2. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Roman Catholics have been in the world at least back to the time of Augustine. The Protestant Reformation as we all know started about 1517. But before the Catholic Church there always have been other Christian believers who understood the Word of God as far back as the Apostolate.

    As to Communion, I have received in the Catholic Church but that priest did not know I was a non-Catholic. Only two or three times . . . Personally, I know many non-Catholics do not have the respect for the Holy Communion that Catholics are taught to understand. Does anyone agree?
     
  3. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges
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    Well,

    The mass itself is an abhorence IMO. By teaching transubstantiation they are, in their theology at least, recrucifying Christ. The people are encouraged to worship the host as it is paraded down the aisle, paralleling Jesus has he carried the cross. No, He died once. We are to offer worship to the Lord, not to the elements of the Lord's Table.

    I DO think a lot of Protestants have lost their respect for it. One thing that my former pastor did was teach that the Lord's Supper is, in addition, to a memorial of what Christ has done, but also, a testimony to our belief in the Second Coming. The gist was "If Christ was to come back today, what would He say to you about your life?" Then he would proceed with a short sermon on examining yourself when coming to the Lord's Table. I think that is an excellent way of teaching about the Lord's Supper and helping people respect it more.

    A few years ago, I designed a communion service for college students as a going away present for them when I graduated. That year I was president of the Christian Student Union.

    It was traditional for the outgoing president to give a sermon and then "hand over the baton" to the incoming president each year. I decided to do that and then have a special service.

    I reserved a room about 100 feet away from the room in which we actually met. We had our regular meeting and then I told everybody what would happen next. I had asked my roommate, who was president before I was and the incoming president to accompany me as we lead the entire group (about 40 or 50 students) to the other room. The could speak before they entered, but as soon as the doors were closed, I told them there could be no speaking in the room.

    We lead them to the other room, and there was silence as soon as the door closed. I had asked one of my roommates to sing "Come to the Table" by Michael Card after everyone was seated. He had been practicing for a week, and he had a sore throat. God must have healed his throat, because he sounded perfect.

    Jim, Bill, and I had set the Lord's Table with cups from a local church and the unleavened bread. I began with the instructions. They were to each come forward and tear off a small piece / s of bread when asked to do so by Jim. They were to then give that piece / those pieces to a person /s that had helped them grow in the Lord during that year at school. Then the person receiving it would take it and eat it. Then, the incoming Council members would distribute the cups to everyone and Bill (the incoming president) would instruct us when to drink.

    Then I rose and told them that after the closing prayer everybody was to leave the room and not speak at all to each other until the doors had been closed after we all exited.

    I prayed, and then we all left. Bill closed the doors. Everybody was gathered outside in the atrium. They began talking. People were crying. We all left with a new respect for the Lord's Table.
     
  4. johnp.

    johnp.
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    The mass itself is an abhorence.

    They have respect for their idolatry.

    johnp.
     
  5. johnp.

    johnp.
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  6. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    johnp,

    In most Roman Catholic Churches they have the stations of the Cross. Are you of the opinion that Catholics do not believe and trust in Christ for everlasting life?

    I believe they do believe and also love and try to follow Jesus, but not all of them. I do also know there is a 'truck load' of error that they also bond with in their spiritual lives.

    I believe some of those will be judged as being saved when they stand before Him. [John 5:22b]
     
  7. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Hello Ray.

    I've just had a quick read up of this. What?

    I would not dream of discussing individuals in condemning an organisation. Jesus has His sheep all over the place. Luther was a Catholic.

    A truck load?
    REV 17:3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 This title was written on her forehead:

    MYSTERY
    BABYLON THE GREAT
    THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
    AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

    REV 17:6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
    When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7 Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

    REV 17:9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

    Some truck!

    The inhabitants of the earth whose names have been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will not come into any judgement except to the rewards they will receive.

    johnp.
     
  8. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    johnp,

    I agree with you as to what you said in your post. The leadership has taken a lot of people through martyrdom.

    You sound like a Philadelphia lawyer. You might know that in our country this means an attorney who can get you out of any legal problem. You were somewhat evasive in your lawyer like answers.

    Blessings and I hope your nation will some how experience a revival; our country needs one also.
     
  9. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Ray.

    I've been called worse, I think. It's probably the result of my dodgy past.
    I'll be straight with you.
    As far as revival is concerned, I am eager to see the great apostasy.
    Watch the next Pope. He just might be taking the final curtain.

    Calvinism has a way about it that tends to be viewed as callousness.
    God creates just to damn. He does not say it out front but it is listed as a possibility. What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory, even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

    Daring stuff from Paul, Romans 9:22-24, Spurgeon should have paid more attention to scripture rather than let his love for man, the effluence from his love of God, get into his eyes.
    What happens to another is no concern of ours. We are to preach the word and pray. To reach out and bring the word of life to our brothers and sisters whoever they are. To have compassion not sentimentality. If the Lord condemns a man will we take pity on His enemies?
    I ask the question because I want to have pity but that is to question His business.
    He makes no effort in His word to come across as nice. He is not like us.
    When He says that He will make out of the same lump of clay things for noble purposes and things for common purposes we are not being asked our opinion. He means it. We are meant to take His word for it.

    When we start to think that God won't do something we don't like we judge Him. Paul showed us that if God wants to do that above, Romans 9:22-24, if He wants to, what's that to us? Do we dare talk back? Has He not the right to make one person for Hell and another for Himself? The question is to you Ray, and to all of us, all of us that hear that is, "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?" Yes or no Ray? Don't answer me answer God because it is God that is asking you.

    What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy
    What if He did this man? Just imagine! It's a possibility and so far removed from your beliefs.
    And if He does that just to show us what we missed, what is that to do with us but praise the Lord Almighty for saving us from burning in Hell. I didn't even know it was even there!

    He is not a namby-pamby, wishy-washy, sweet sickly Jesus holding out His arms and begging! Sweet Jesus? He not called the Rock for nothing! He is as fierce in His Love as He is in His Hatred.
    That is what He says He is and I don't care that I don't understand that, I fall at His feet. I am in awe of Him. He does as He pleases and that pleases me. I want Him like that. I do not want to depend on myself. I know myself too well.
    There is nothing in me that is of any use to Him, and usually to anybody else, and I like that. It makes me free to be myself with Him and with those I meet. No fig leaves me. I'm bold and stand openly before His gaze. I have nothing to hide from Him, He forgave me. I believe Him. Forgiven. I worship here.
    I tell Him that if He wants me to be any different then He had better get on with it cause it won't come from me, I know myself. And that knowledge has freed me. Freedom. Complete reliance on the One that gave His life for me. Everlastingly loved. He told me He loved me. He gave me His love so that I could return it to Him and that is where I am. That is, communion!

    What you think?

    johnp.
     
  10. Ray Berrian

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    Johnp,

    I like your spirit and attitude toward the Lord. If the ‘nations are a drop in the bucket’ He is the awesome Being who we call the Lord God. I am glad that He has adopted me and taken me into His flock of sheep. I have no other hope!

    I think Romans 9 chapter nine tells us that it is a hypothetical way of His speaking about Himself. In this venue He could save some and damn the rest of humans. ‘What if was willing to show His wrath and to make evident His power? I do, however, believe that He does use men and women who are hardened against Him, in whatever way He wishes.

    Jesus is no ‘soft Touch,’ if you will, but during time are His days of proffered grace. When the sinner dies or at the final judgment the lost will see His severe Divine justice and unending wrath. I think you will agree with me that there is no escaping out of eternal Hell. :(
     
  11. Ray Berrian

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    johnp,

    The use of the words, Philadelphia lawyer, was actually a compliment as to how articulate you are with words; but like a lawyer you can elude the questions and ideas that people offer for your thinking.

    May God the Spirit continue to use you as you deal with the lost and the saved.
     

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