Community Mosques: An Islamic Trojan Horse?

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by righteousdude2, Dec 27, 2012.

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Is True Islam a Modern Day Trojan Horse?

  1. Without a doubt...

    10 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. To think this is preposterous...

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  3. There are radical Ilsamist and peace-loving Islamist...

    4 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. I have my doubts regarding the true intent of Islam...

    6 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. I have no opinion...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. It is too soon to draw an opinion, but I am keeping an eye to the East...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. The Christian church has a radical element too...what does that say about the church?

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
  8. This subject is pure paranoia, and hurts peaceful assimilation of Islam in society...

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
  9. I have had my concerns and doubts as to the true nature of Islam...

    6 vote(s)
    33.3%
  10. Could the likes of Rick Warren be like others who are duped by the hidden Islamic agenda?

    7 vote(s)
    38.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    Could Islam be the modern version of a gradual placement of a religious Trojan Horse in the midst of Western nations here and abroad?

    Here are a few good links on the topic, and a few more links concerning what is going on in Eygpt as it moves toward Islamic rule and Shariah law. Will we see a genocide of those professing to be Christians? Will the church be forced to go underground to exist in the new Eygpt and other nations formed under the guise of the "Arab Spring?"

    SEE:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXInAtDfizI

    http://civilservicejournal.com/mosque.html


    Are Christians in Islamic Eygpt [and other countries] reorganizing under the guise of the "Arab Spring," imperiled or in danger? And will this be the same future for Christians in the West once Islam gets a solid foothold in place?"


    SEE: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/21/future-looks-bleak-for-egypts-coptic-christians/

    http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideis...sts-Claim-Victory-on-Egypt-Constitution-Vote/

    http://aclj.org/radical-islam/stop-genocide-christians-egypt
     
    #1 righteousdude2, Dec 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2012
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    The Bottom Line is,

    under the First Amendment, Muslims will be able to build mosques just as other folks get to build their churches, temples, and synagogues.
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    :thumbsup:

    And not only will the be able to they should be able to
     
  4. Oldtimer

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    Here in the US, they do have that right.

    The Trojan Horse is where, IMO, the real question lies. Once enough mosques are built and populated, will the First Amendment continue to exist? Will the US Constitution, regardless of how tattered it is today, still exist?
     
  5. Winman

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    I work with a man who was born in Sudan, but grew up in Yemen. He has sons and daughters there in Yemen, but he has brought 5 of them here.

    This fellow was raised Muslim, but he is not extreme whatsoever, in fact, he came here to escape all of that. I have had many interesting conversations with this fellow. According to him, the average Muslim is not extreme, they have no desire to push their religion on anyone. In fact, most Muslims do not like the extremism in their own religion. From what I have observed, most Muslims here seem almost secular.

    Muslims have a right to come here and build mosques like any other religion. I believe most of these Muslims will be honest, hard-working citizens who love and support American freedoms, especially religion.

    But there will always be a few extremists, just as you get some extreme Christian groups.

    What we have to watch are those extremists who attempt to take over communities and pass Sharia law.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    I don't. In fact just the opposite is true.
     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    ditto here. better to be happily wrong, than sorrowfully right.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    I just see that the evidence shows otherwise. It is not just a few around the world we see in the news every day. It is not just a few in Syria, its not just a few we see in Egypt, it is not just a few we see in Iran, it is not just a few we see in Lebanon etc. There are far to many extremists Muslims out there. It is not just a few.

    When other Muslims admit that openly then I will trust them. Until then anyone who makes that claim is just like the rest. The stakes are far to high to be playing around with politics on this issue.
     
  9. OldRegular

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    Adding to the problem of the extremist element is that the so-called moderates do nothing at all to condemn the extremist element.

    Then of course, perhaps even worse, are those folks that blind themselves to the history of Islam!
     
  10. preachinjesus

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    Absolutely.

    I'm currently part of an interfaith dialogue with leaders from other beliefs and we have both a Shiite and Sunni Muslim who are part of the conversation. This kind of rhetoric about mosques from anyone disrupts our attempts at engaging Muslims and extending our ability to reach them. One of the greatest challenges for Muslims in America is how deeply misunderstood they are and how much they fear this misunderstanding. I know many Muslims and none of them are radical, all of the decry acts of terror, and all them wish to practice their faith in peace. We must remember that the media and Hollywood, along with too many evangelicals, have perpetrated horrendous acts of misunderstanding about the nature of Islam. Though there are far too many who take Islam and use it to commit horrible acts, part of our Baptist heritage has us to believe that free exercise of religion is essential to a free people.

    I've been in plenty of mosques. Believe it or not there are not basements full of guns and bombs. There are not instructional studies on how to build and carry out acts of destruction. Where there are radical Islamists, and yes there are some, they are in the minority and are generally shunned by most Muslims. If we hope to foster any dialogue leading to understanding we need to put away these ridiculous accusations and uninformed observations about others. Our Christian charity demands it.

    We cannot reach a whole world for Christ if we begin by insulting these people.
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    They need to "decry" against the terrorism from the top of the mountains. Unless they do that then the mistrust is their fault.
     
  12. SovereignMercy

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    No insult, read the Koran. World domination is their goal and they worship a false god. Preaching the gospel saves the elect, not trying to cover glaring differences.
     
  13. SovereignMercy

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    In the Muslim faith Allah's followers pour out unjust vengeance. For those who believe in Christ, Jesus will pour out just vengeance for us at His appointed time.

    We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

    preachinginjesus, have you shared this truth in your interfaith dialogues?
     
  14. preachinjesus

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    One of the neat things about being involved with interfaith dialogues is that it provides a unique opportunity to present the whole Gospel and speak the truth of Christianity to people who have often only heard a mischaracterization. Once one has credibility with these communities you have a platform to share. Now I don't go around proselytizing and telling them they are all going to hell...because they'll just laugh and tell me that I'm going there instead.

    The reality is that just as Christianity has a sad history of terrible acts in the name of Christ that we, today, wouldn't uphold, many other religions have these acts too. The history of the encounters of Christianity and Islam there has been a continual point of misunderstanding and violence on both sides. Where we are today, we must learn to live together for the betterment of our society.

    I wonder what others on BB are doing to reach out for understanding and sharing with other religions.
     
  15. Aaron

    Aaron
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    The Gospel in three words:

    Turn or burn.
     
  16. righteousdude2

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    A Wise Man Once Said....

    ...it is far much better to "Err" on the side of caution, than not to "Err" at all! We can always apologize if proven wrong! :thumbs:
     
  17. righteousdude2

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    Aren't There Better Causes for Christ?

    >I'm currently part of an interfaith dialogue with leaders from other beliefs and we have both a Shiite and Sunni Muslim who are part of the conversation< That is your perrogative PiJ. I salute you for your open mindedness.

    >I know many Muslims, and none of them are radical; all of the decry acts of terror, and all them wish to practice their faith in peace.< A lot of today's crazies, and murderers have been described by neighbors and friends and family as "normal, socialible, and generally, an all-around good person." Those who harbor a hidden agenda do the hiding with tremendous skill. Even professionals don't often pick up on anothers hidden agenda or dark side.


    >I've been in plenty of mosques. Believe it or not there are not basements full of guns and bombs. There are not instructional studies on how to build and carry out acts of destruction< Have you ever had someone over to your home to visit and not removed the things you did not care for others to see??? The genuine Trojan Horse will have all the signs of being everything it purports to be. A neutral, friendly contribution to the party it is being given to.

    >We cannot reach a whole world for Christ if we begin by insulting these people< Do you honestly believe that you are going to proselyte these people? Why is it that Christian want to, and think they can go to the house of someone with a different religious belief thinking they should win them over to Jesus? We have more than enough unbelievers around us to bother spending our time trying to convince a person solidly anchored in their own religious beliefs to come over to our way of thinking.

    If you want to fellowship with them for fellowship purposes, fine. However, Muslims, like Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are soundly taught and deeply rooted in their own beliefs, and it is not an easy task, winning them to Jesus. For every Muslim, you win to Jesus; how many folks without any beliefs in his or her life could you have actually won to Jesus. I'd reckon to say that for every Muslim converted to Jesus, you probably could win 20 to 30 for the Kingdom.

    If winning these folks was important, why didn't Billy Graham divert his full attention to preaching to Muslims? Because he knew it would be futile and less productive than preaching to those who have nothing to cling to.

    Furthermore, it should be remembered, that Muslims, Mormons and Jehoacvah Witnesses do not take kindly to their own being proselyted. To Islam, we are now and always will be the great Satan.

    I commend your love and efforts to winning Muslims to Jesus, PiJ; I just don't see why you'd consider putting all your efforts into this, when the fields are ripe for harvest.


    I don't oppose your love and commitment to being on a friendly basis with those of other religious persuasions. I do, however, question its overall value, as we know that there is but one God, one way to God, and that many of the world religions will not be saved, because of their love and devotion to their own cause!

    I just think you could find a better use of your time than buttering up the church of Islam with the a hidden agenda to change them. It's like the woman/man who marries their mate with the idea tha they will change them to their way of thinking in time. I'm sure that you know these relationships/marriages very seldom work out, and most end up in divorce court.

    My Gradma always said, "Paul, you can't change the stripes on a leopards back!" :type:

    When was the last time you told a Muslim friend, one-on-one, or said from the stage in their presence what Jesus said when asked how to get to heaven, "“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.' or when was the last time you listened to his advice when he said, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,”

    Jesus knew there were others who held to their religions. He also knew that they would either leave their religions and follow him, or they would remain and HE would move on. All I believe we owe our Muslim brothers are the truth of Jesus. Tell them that HE is the way, the truth and the light!" If you can say that to them and leave as a friend and not a foe, you may be unto something worth hanging around for!
     
    #17 righteousdude2, Dec 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2012
  18. righteousdude2

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    YOu Know What's Funny about Interfaith things....

    ...all parties have a hidden agenda to win the other parties over to their way of thinking. I'd love to be the fly upon the wall when you all get together. I can be pretty much assured that it is a meeting of wills with covert conversations taking place throughout the time of fellowship. Each group has prayed for breakthroughs. I see it as being a highly futile event. :laugh:
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Muhammad's Own Words

    Prophet of Doom was written to expose what Islam’s founder had to say about himself, his ambition, religion, and god. Before you use or criticize these quotes, please read this overview from the author. For those who are serious about the study of Islam, be sure to read the source material appendix, entitled Islam's Dark Past.



    Fighting


    Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
    Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
    Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
    Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."
    Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
    Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
    Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
    Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."
    Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."
    Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."
    Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."
    Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth."
    Bukhari:V4B52N63 "A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, 'Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?' The Prophet said, 'Embrace Islam first and then fight.' So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, 'A Little work, but a great reward.'"
    Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: 'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"
    Muslim:C34B20N4668 "The Messenger said: 'Anybody who equips a warrior going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights. And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one who actually fights."
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place."
    Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."
    Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them - these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect Muslims who fight."
    Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."
    Bukhari:V9B84N59 "Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.'"
    Qur'an:8:73 "The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah's religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid - these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise)."
    Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."
    Qur'an:48:16 "Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture."
    Qur'an:48:22 "If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah."
    Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."
    Qur'an:47:31 "And We shall try you until We know those among you who are the fighters."
    Tabari VI:138 "Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah had permitted fighting."
    Tabari VI:139 "Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse 'And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.'"
    Qur'an:9:19 "Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in Allah's Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah."
    Ishaq:550 "The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling."
    Qur'an:5:94 "Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment."
    Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."
    Tabari IX:22 "The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them bitterly."
    Tabari IX:25 "By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant."
    Tabari IX:82 "The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them."
    Tabari IX:88 "Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and became a good Muslim. Allah's Apostle invested Azdi with the authority over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger's command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew, setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to inflict a heavy loss on them."
    Ishaq:530 "Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make enemies of friends."
    Muslim:C9B1N29 "Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu Bakr said: 'I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they used to pay if they withhold it now.' Allah had justified fighting against those who refused to pay Zakat."
    Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"
    Muslim:C10B1N176 "Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said: 'There is no god but Allah,' but I attacked him with a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle about this. The Messenger said: 'Did he profess "There is no god but Allah," and even then you killed him?' I said: 'He made a profession out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.' The Prophet said: 'Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had professed truly or not?'"
    Muslim:C20B1N4597 "The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: 'There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.'"
    Muslim:C28B20N4628 "Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word; Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home with his reward and booty."
    Muslim:C28B20N4629 "The Messenger said: 'One who is wounded in the Way of Allah - and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way - will appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color (of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.'"
    Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 "The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: 'Who is the best of men?' He replied: 'A man who fights staking his life and spending his wealth in Allah's Cause.'"
    Muslim:C42B20N4684 "A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said: 'Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?' The Messenger of Allah said: 'Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the Way of Allah.'"
    Muslim:C53B20N4717 "The Prophet said: 'This religion will continue to exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight for its protection until the Hour is established.'"
    Bukhari:V5B59N288 "I witnessed a scene that was dearer to me than anything I had ever seen. Aswad came to the Prophet while Muhammad was urging the Muslims to fight the pagans. He said, 'We shall fight on your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.' I saw the face of the Prophet getting bright with happiness, for that saying delighted him."
    Bukhari:V5B59N290 "The believers who did not join the Ghazwa [Islamic raid or invasion] and those who fought are not equal in reward."
    Qur'an:2:193 "Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers."
     
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