concealed carry classes

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Tom Bryant, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
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    Have any of you pastors thought about having concealed carry classes on your church campuses? Did you or why did you not? Really just interested in the ideas and opinions of pastors or church leaders. Not wanting to argue, just to hear your opinions.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    I have had them because we had multiple members who wanted them. That would be the only reason I would allow them.
     
  3. plain_n_simple

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    Wouldn't it be more effective and safer if deacons and elders were trained with weapons and strategically placed around the church? A balcony would be a great asset. Personally I'd rather only a few chosen men have guns than many, purely for crossfire reasons.
     
  4. wpe3bql

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    I can see your point---but only to a point. Here's a few reasons that, IMHO, at least, your line of reasoning may fall apart:

    1) What if your auditorium building isn't designed to have a balcony? Not every church building is designed to hold a balcony. The church of which I'm a member doesn't have an auditorium that's designed to have a balcony connected to it. The building in which we hold our corporate service is only about 35 YO. As a matter of fact, many newer church buildings are intentionally designed NOT to hold an auditorium, and for good reasons--fire codes, lack of access for fire and/or rescue people, more cleaning/maintenance issues, etc.

    2) If all the armed men are situated such that they only are protecting the corporate meeting auditorium, then who's guarding, say, the nursery? I don't know of any nursery worker who'd feel comfortable wielding a high powered hand gun, nor do I think a parent would want their little one(s) hanging on to a nursery worker who just may overlook engaging the safety mechanism on her hand gun. Far too many people--young or old--have been killed by little children thinking that pistol would make a nice toy to play with his/her sibling(s), or as really young children are wont to do, stick it in their mouth as they crawl around, bumping into anything that's in their way.

    Back to the nursery scenario. Maybe the "uninvited guest" doesn't want to kill someone in the nursery. Instead, maybe he'll just kidnap a few of those babies after he's bound and gagged all the nursery workers, robbed them of all their money, credit cards, their driver's licenses, automobile registration, etc., and, of course, all their cell phones.

    Would you recommend a young parent to bring his/her baby to that church anytime soon after an incident like I just described occurred?

    3) What about a church whose campus consists of several unattached buildings? Does your membership have enough trained and armed men to protect each and every one of those buildings during either SS and/or the "corporate worship time"?

    My church has more than one corporate worship going on at the same time. We have our English-speaking service in one building, but we also have both an Ethiopian service in another building across the street that's goes on at the same time, and a Korean service in another building at the same time. Who's guarding them?

    If you say, well, let them guard themselves, you run into the problem that 99.95% aren't legally permitted to carry weapons to a church service--or any other public venue--because (a) most of the adults can't speak enough English well enough to pass the required written exams for the legal "concealed carry" permits; (b) To my knowledge, there aren't enough people trained well enough to speak (in the Ethiopian case) Amarigna, Oromigna, Tigrigna, or Somaligna. If you know of some people who are very fluent in those languages, let me know so we can contact them to help out our Ethiopian brothers. (c) Although our Korean brothers all speak some dialect of "Korean," most written exams for concealed carry permits in our area aren't printed in "Korean." Moreover, "Korean" is one of the world's most difficult languages for an America to master. Ask any missionary that either is, or went to Korea to minister to these people how long he/she took to master "Korean" to the extent that he/she could present a series of doctrinal messages on, say, the differences of Pre-, Post-,and A- millennialism. See what he/she will tell you.

    4) My church also sponsors a Christian day school with grades starting at 2 YO on up to, and including Grade 12. These meet M-F from 8am to 3pm, plus after school athletics, etc.

    Who'll be guarding them every minute of every day these children occupy our campus? And, don't forget that we provide "After School Care," plus some evening programs (e.g., Christmas, HS/MS Drama performances, Thanksgiving, K Graduation, HS Graduation, etc.), oh yes, we also have various kinds of field trips throughout the year on which various grades ride on our school buses. Who's guarding them both to and from their destination(s)? It'd take quite a few willing men who are able to leave their places of employment to become security guards during school hours (plus both before and after school hours as well as the other above-mentioned venues). The only logical means that could be accomplished would be to raise each student's school fees to such a level that many student's (actually, it's most likely their parents who'd be socked with the whopping fee increase.) wouldn't be able to attend our Christian school any more. What about that, Bro. P&S? Then they'd either have to be homeschooled or, worse yet, be forced to attend a government-controlled school some with ill-trained teachers or with teachers who'd teach them that, e.g., it's okay to be gay or an atheist or evolution as a "proven fact" or any other new PC-curriculum that comes down the road. So, are you willing to stand up to your parents of school-aged children and say, "Don't worry, we've got an hour-long SS, plus a Children's Church to teach them all they'll ever need to know to face the challenges they'll come across in today's world!!" Bro. P&S, are you willing to stand up to our Christian school parents and tell them that they'll just have to make things do--either pay the highly-increased student fees for your children to keep attending our Christian school, or find some other way for your child/children to receive a Bible-centered education! Well, Bro. P&S, are you willing and ready to tell that during our soon-to-come school orientation service(s)?


    I'm not intending to rip apart your line of reasoning for a church. Maybe your church doesn't have the same set of circumstances that mine does, but can you now see that some of your suggestions, carried out to their fullest extent, just won't suffice for each and every church here in modern-day America?

    I hope you take this in the spirit I wrote it. I love you, my Brother in Christ and friend, even though we may never meet face-to-face in this life, I wish only the very best for you, your family, and for the church to which God has called you.
     
  5. Tom Bryant

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    There are a couple of reasons why we're thinking and talking about this. First, is for outreach opportunities. Second is to be a service to various members who are interested in it.

    We're really not thinking about security. We already have a number of people who carry in the service, including 2 police officers and the pastor :)
     
  6. Tom Bryant

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    In regards to nursery safety, we have door security with visual ability. We have a panic button in several places. There are other security measures as well.
     
  7. padredurand

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    We do Sword training every week.
     
  8. Rolfe

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    Thought you were anti-self-defense under any circumstances...
     
  9. Rolfe

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    I am not a Pastor but am all for it.
     
  10. Crabtownboy

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    Show me words from the Prince of Peace that supports the idea proposed in the OP. Thanks.
     
    #10 Crabtownboy, Jul 28, 2015
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  11. Tom Bryant

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    Not sure that Georgia has a prince...

    I am not looking to argue. The OP asked for pastors or church leaders to give their opinion. If you're either of these, feel free to give an opinion.
     
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  12. TCassidy

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    We not only had them, I taught them.

    As to what the bible has to say about weapons:

    Nehemiah 4:16-18 From that day on, half of my servants carried on the work while half of them held the spears, the shields, the bows and the breastplates; and the captains were behind the whole house of Judah. Those who were rebuilding the wall and those who carried burdens took their load with one hand doing the work and the other holding a weapon. As for the builders, each wore his sword girded at his side as he built, while the trumpeter stood near me.

    Luke 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
     
  13. Baptist Believer

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    My mother's former church had both a handgun safety course and a conceal-carry course about 10 years ago. She moved out of the area, so I don't know if they are still doing it.

    If nothing else, I think a gun safety course would be an enormous asset to the community. Too many people don't know anything about guns other than what they see on television/movies, and what the media presents is almost always wrong and unsafe. Moreover, guns are not magic. Having one doesn't make you safe and not knowing how to properly use one puts you and everyone around you at risk. Everyone should at least know how to make a gun "safe."

    I think it is a shame that more gun stores and gun groups do not offer free gun safety courses to the public. The church should be a part of making our communities safer and bringing people together.
     
  14. Baptist Believer

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    Are you an NRA-trained instructor, or just someone who is experienced?

    I've thought offering to do something like that with a friend of mine who is a retired Special Forces guy. He has all kinds of training. I've just been around guns much of my life.
     
  15. sag38

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    First, show us where it doesn't. Thank you!
     
  16. Crabtownboy

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    Matthew 5:9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

    Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    Matthew 5:39-44 You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

    Now please answer my question. Thanks.

    http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/...8d57f430cb2f3feb9d41e226e/20140424edloc-a.tif




     
    #16 Crabtownboy, Aug 6, 2015
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  17. sag38

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    Some folks love to take passages out of context to justify their pacifism. Glad soldiers and police officers don't follow this interpretation. And I am glad that there are men and women who don't agree with Crab's misapplication of scripture who have successfully defended their lives, homes and businesses from thugs . If everyone used Crab's cowardly false use of the scripture we would all be speaking German or Japaneses and many would be helpless victims of those who don't give a blank about human life. Of course we all know Crab belief that life doesn't start until it exits the womb. Before that, it's just a fetus. His brand of Bible interpretation, politics, and stance on abortion are of the most reprehensible on this board.
     
  18. Crabtownboy

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    I did as you requested. Sorry you do not like the words of Christ. Now please reply to my question. I honored your question. Now honor mine or show that you are dishonorable in either refusing or by remain quiet.

    Where does Jesus teach that carrying concealed weapons is all right, and especially it is fine to have weapons classes in a church?

    As I have said I repeatedly that I am against abortion it appears you now say that being against abortion is reprehensible. Strang of you to do so.

     
  19. Tom Bryant

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    Thanks for all those who answered what I was asking. Thanks also to the resident leftist for being against it. You convinced me that it was the right thing to do.

    btw
    Luke 22:35-38And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” 36 And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” 38 They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”
     
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  20. sag38

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    As I have said I repeatedly that I am against abortion it appears you now say that being against abortion is reprehensible. Strang of you to do so.

    [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

    The chameleon speaks. He is like President Obama who speaks to the audience what he thinks they want to hear but hides what he really believes. But, he has forgotton what he said at a different time which conflicts with his current statement.

    Have you not stated in the past that life does not begin a conception? Tell the truth!
     
    #20 sag38, Aug 7, 2015
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