Ok ok, I think I just realized what's going on in this forum. The cal/arm forum is gone now so people are posting everything here about it. Wow. Ok, I can deal with that. Obviously, I'm not always the most brilliant person. With that in mind, can I make a proposition? Instead of a bunch of threads that are unclear, take one vaguely related verse and turn it into a debate on a major point, why not have five different threads, each dealing with one petal? That way everyone will know what is being spoken of and everyone knows exactly what is being discussed and why. 1. Total depravity 2. Unconditional Election 3. Limited Atonement 4. Irresistable Grace 5. Perserverance of Saints Maybe a mod can start it, or I can...or anyone, as apparently we all know how to type. That way it'll be much easier to read and discuss. Anyone else like this idea?