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Conditional election

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Dr. Walter, Aug 14, 2010.

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  1. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    Suffient for all but efficient for the elect? There is no question that the blood of Christ could have redeemed Satan and all the fallen angels as well as all mankind as it does not lack the value as it is infinite in value. Therefore, any limitations cannot be due to a limited value. The only limitations must be by design as its application is equal to its design. Was it designed by God for all sinners (angelic and human)?

    Most believe in some form of limited atonement because they limit God's design for the atonement to only one class of sinners - human - thus excluding angelic sinners. Thus they believe in a limited design behind the atonement not purposed or applicable to all sinners without exception.

    Conditional election would fit with limited design for atonement to all human sinners without exception based upon predetermined conditions for salvation.

    Unconditional election would fit with limited design for atonment for those elected "TO" salvation "THROUGH" sanctification of the Spirit AND belief of the truth.

    Conditional election assumes that all men either have faith by nature or are given faith at some point in order to meet the conditions of election. However, there are no explicit scriptues that support that view but rather contradict it (2 Thes. 3:2; Rom. 3:10-12; Isa. 64:7; Psa. 14:2-3).

    Unconditional election points to specific scriptures that state in clear language that justifing faith is a work, gift of God and is "of grace" inseparable from regeneration (Acts 13:48; Eph. 2:8-10a; Jn. 6:29,37-45, 64-65; I Thes. 1:4-5; 2:13-14; I Cor. 1:26-31; etc.).
     
    #21 Dr. Walter, Aug 16, 2010
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Hey Doc Wally....Good Morning!!! :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #22 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
  3. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    Good morning to you to:type:
     
    #23 Dr. Walter, Aug 16, 2010
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Do angels sin? Guess so if you factor in Lucifer
     
    #24 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2010
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Basically.
    following so far except the angels bit. There is a different treatment of angels that does not corrispond with human salvation.
    I don't believe in God limiting his design. Salvation is available to all who avail themselves of it.
    Again two different treatments. Man's fall is not the same as the angelic fall. Both are treated differently. Judgement waits for both. However, a partial judgement has ensued for the fallen angelic host.
    yes this is true. Angels have already made their choices. They are just waiting for the judgement.
    If you include the angelic host yes.
    So much for that. It places salvation squarely in the hands of man or some greek understanding of fate.

    . Are you saying Sanctification happens before salvation? What?

    Yes this is true.

    Yes this is true.
     
    #25 Thinkingstuff, Aug 16, 2010
  6. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    EW&F, and TS: Just to be clear I am not limited atonement, nor unconditional adherent, nor irrresistible grace, nor most liket "totaly depravity" in the ways I see it defined by "reformers"/
     
    #26 quantumfaith, Aug 16, 2010
  7. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Hello DW: Just curious, is your moniker here in BB taken from the Dr. Walter ...The Bible Answer Man?
     
    #27 quantumfaith, Aug 16, 2010
  8. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    How then does any "avail" himself of this salvation if none understand and seek after God?
     
    #28 RAdam, Aug 16, 2010
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Solely on the merits of the righteousness of Jesus Christ applied by the Holy Spirit according to unconditional election
     
    #29 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
  10. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    So it is the Lord which avails men of this salvation? Is that what you are saying?
     
    #30 RAdam, Aug 16, 2010
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Thats what your saying.
     
    #31 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
  12. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    Well, what say you? How does one avail himself of this salvation when the bible says none understand and seek after God?
     
    #32 RAdam, Aug 16, 2010
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Until they are saved
     
    #33 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
  14. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    Well then, how do they enter this saved condition?
     
    #34 RAdam, Aug 16, 2010
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I dont know how do you?
     
    #35 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
  16. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    Why won't you just answer the question?
     
    #36 RAdam, Aug 16, 2010
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Adam, have you ever heard the expression, " Every system is perfectly designed to get the results that are achieved?"
     
    #37 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I am just a wee Presbyterian. Not smart like ye Baptists. And I believe in predestination. A mon's a wise man or a fool by the willing of the Almighty, and that we should not quarrel. Let us thank Him that he made us (Presbyterians) clever. Hoot man!!

    Next clip: Scotsman in kilts walking into the sunset wearing his kilt & playing the Old Spice song. LOL:laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
    #38 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2010
  19. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Romans 10: 9-11

    If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As scriptures says, "Anyone who believes in him shall never be put to shame." (TNIV)
     
    #39 quantumfaith, Aug 16, 2010
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Ohhhh, you gave it away matey. Scotsmen never give anything away. But try this, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" Romans 10:13

    Just a gigolo, every were I go......:smilewinkgrin:
     
    #40 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2010
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