confederate VS USA constitution

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by mcdirector, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    confederate VS USA constitution

    Salty's questions surrounding confederacy issues made me remember some questions I had. This is a side by side comparison (with the author's commentary) of the two constitutions.
     
  2. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,896
    Likes Received:
    294
    Very interesting!

    Thanks for posting it.

    Actually, I like some of the changes that were made such as line item veto and 1 term for the president, only citizens had the right to vote, among others.

    It is interesting that they banned the further importation of slaves but kept the slave trade legal within the Confederacy.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,095
    Likes Received:
    218
    MC, I'm glad you added the phrase ...authors commentary ... as you can tell he was very biased. For example in the intro it stated: "They formed a new, rival country "
    Rival? The CSA was not trying to compete with the USA, they simply wanted to be left alone.

    And for those who were not aware of it, the CSA made it unconstitutional to import slaves from foreign countries.

    I do appreciate the web link, it is very interesting.

    Salty
     
  4. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,095
    Likes Received:
    218
    I am confident that in several years, slavery would have been outlawed in the CSA.
     
  5. StefanM

    StefanM
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    72
    Only with the advent of technology. The southern landowners could not have operated without the slave economy.
     
  6. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,896
    Likes Received:
    294
    Or died a natural death.
     
  7. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,073
    Likes Received:
    101
    A question of economics; allowing importation would have lowered the value of existing slave operations by providing another source of chattel.

    It was pragmatic in another way: The Royal Navy was vigorously enforcing the British war against the slave trade, and the CSA didn't want to tangle with the Brits.
     
  8. StefanM

    StefanM
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    72
    Exactly. The number of slaves in America were sufficient to provide a continual slave supply.
     
  9. NiteShift

    NiteShift
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ironic, considering that in the 1740's, England was sending 33 ships a year on the triangular slaver route from Liverpool to Africa to the Caribbean, where 3000 slaves were supplied annually to the West Indies sugar plantations.
     
  10. Palatka51

    Palatka51
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Likes Received:
    0
    And due to the sacrifice and efforts of William Wilberforce Great Britain stopped that abominable business and avoided the judgment that was America's fate.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/wilberforce_william.shtml
     
  11. NiteShift

    NiteShift
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Confederate sin was in not giving up that abominable business as early as had England, or the northern US states. It's like living in a seedy neighborhood for many years, then deciding to clean up your own yard and insisting that all your neighbors do the same. Just a little hypocritical.

    But yes, it was a bad business and we would all be better off if it had never happened.
     
  12. J.D.

    J.D.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    8
    It was also a moral attitude. Most people at that time did not consider slavery, itself, as evil; but the slave trade was seen as evil because, for example, it wasn't the slave owners that forced those poor people into slavery, it was the slave traders that did the wicked deed. Slave owners saw themselves - and this is hard to swallow by today's thinking - but they saw themselves as the slave's savior of sorts. After all, he was giving them a job, a place to live, food, clothing, and medical care, and also he was rescuing them from that awful beast, the slave trader.

    This was part of the moral rational behind the confederacy's outlawing of the slave trade, but not existing slavery itself.
     
  13. Palatka51

    Palatka51
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just south of Jacksonville, Fla. there is a historical park called the Kingsly Plantation. It was African-American owned. It had African slaves. The contribution of Blacks to the US of A during the Revolutionary war and through the Civil War has many storied accounts and should not be dismissed. To this day many African-Americans are Patriotic and serve our nation with honor and distinction.

    So what happened then has happened and there is no turning back from it. It was a different time and there was much suffering. We just need to remember that we do not want it to happen again. IMHO we are better as a nation for it.

    I think that our Black neighbors have more of an American experience than most White/Caucasian Americans do. Most White Americans can only trace their lineage back to the years of immigration. On my father's side we go back to the 3rd generation from me. On my mother's side we go back to just before the Civil War when there were many Germanic people fleeing the Prussian Empire. While there are some traces of lineage back to the founding fathers there aren't any direct blood lines. On my father's side my great Grandmother's maiden name was Sumner. She was the niece of the Honorable Senator Charles Sumner a Massachusetts antislavery Republican.

    http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/The_Caning_of_Senator_Charles_Sumner.htm

    We must honor the contribution of African-Americans. In all due respect they are a deep part of the American soul. If you look in the face of a Black man you are looking back to the very discovery of America. Chances are, his lineage goes back to the very first Spanish Colonies.

    Think about it.
     
    #13 Palatka51, Feb 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2008
  14. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the url. I propose we scratch the legalizations of slavery and use it after declaring our independence from King George.
     
  15. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    Does Article IV of the U.S. Constitution prove the Supreme Court ruled correctly in the Dred Scott decision? It seems to me that it does.
     
  16. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. the Dred Scott decision followed the Constitution.
     
  17. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    I like the part where the Confederate government had the right to "meddle" with the Post Office

    "After such and such date---we're cuttin' you off!!! No more government assistance for you!!!!"

    :thumbs: :thumbs:

    Going to war over the postal system seems logical!!!! Imagine some Yankee "drawin' a bead" on blackbird's head because blackbird didn't like the way his mail was being delivered!!!!:laugh:
     
  18. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting Bitsy, thanks... :thumbs:

    I had been thinking one way to reduce the size of government would be to reduce the number of representatives to one per state. This cost savings would be enormous when you consider their salary, staff, travel, offices etc... The purpose of having representatives is now archaic with modern technoligies and instead of having the people represented why not let the people vote?

    I see now this would be amending the constitution which was something I didn't think of.
     
  19. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    I think you are right, LB, with technology - lots of things are archaic today with the technology we have.

    AND as for the post office. Ron and I started our own business back in September - actually got it rolling in October and the Post Office is much more expensive and efficient that I ever imagined. New rate hike in May btw. BUT still much cheaper than UPS and much nicer to our shipments. So I'm liking government interference more and more.
     
  20. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think most if not all of us today in the U.S. are glad we don't have slavery in our country. But way back when I was in collage I found that the Cherokee owned slaves and blacks owned slaves and whites owned slaves, that was a shock to me, I knew about every one but for the Cherokee's.
    My question is when will slavery be done away with across our world today? I keep reading more and more about it, that is sad.
     

Share This Page

Loading...