Confessions of a Columbia Evangelical Seminary Mentor

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, May 10, 2010.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    To whom it may concern:

    I presently have a student who will be finishing his Master's degree under me. I cannot/will not tell much of whom or where he is ministering for obvious reasons.

    However, I can and am willing to comment on the program at CES et al, amount of work required, work rigor, etc. Let me hear from you. I hope my own credibility will help sell the program.

    I open myself up to this as polemic and apologetic for CES and its program of study.

    I will be watching the BB and will be happy to take on all reasonably questions and comments.

    Having said that, I request that you "Be nice!" :smilewinkgrin:

    Here is the web page:

    http://www.columbiaseminary.org/

    "That is all!"
     
  2. UZThD

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    I think your own credibility is an excellent endorsement of CES.

    I respect Rick and doubt that he'd allow anything that would lend support to easy, and therefore, IMO, unChristian, grad degrees in Bible/Theology.If my plate were not already full I would join CES and did for 6-8 months once. The possible disadvantage may be utility, but I doubt it is lack of rigor.
     
    #2 UZThD, May 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2010
  3. Crucified in Christ

    Crucified in Christ
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    Rhet,

    Am I correct in understanding that CES is structured for research oriented degrees...in a similar way to the SA schools?
     
  4. Rhetorician

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    CiC Response

    CiC,

    Thank you for your interests. That is correct. It is built on the SA or English model of studying with a mentor in one area, or what has been called "reading for a degree."

    "That is all!" :smilewinkgrin:
     
  5. Crucified in Christ

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    That is a very interesting approach. I appreciate the idea of doing in-depth research, organizing and writing a dissertation. While classes can be beneficial, they are (IMO) overrated. I believe that Warren Wiersbe stated that the entire point of Seminary is to make the student a life-long student of God's Word. Reading, researching, organizing, praying, writing and editing certainly fits the bill. Thank you for the info; if I think of any other questions, I will get back to you.
     
  6. Martin

    Martin
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    Rhet,

    As you know, I have toyed around with the idea of earning a doctoral degree. I looked at Columbia Evangelical Seminary and started an application process for the Doctor of Education program at Liberty University. The EdD program would have worked great but my teaching load for the Spring and Fall just does not allow me to work and take doctoral level courses at the same time. The problem I had with the CES program is utility. Even though I plan to continue teaching with the community college system there may come a day when I wish to move up to the UNC system or get into community college administration. In such a case, a CES degree would do me no good. That is why I am still thinking about a Doctor of Education program (either through Liberty or ECU). The Doctor of Education degree, from a regionally accredited university, would give me those options. A doctoral degree from CES would allow me neither. So, when it comes to a doctoral degree, I think I will one day pursue a EdD. Though I must confess that CES offers an attractive program that allows students to pursue their academic interests. Schools like CES serve a purpose and are wonderful options for pastors and missionaries. However for those planning to teach, at the college or university level, a regionally accredited program is a must.
     
    #6 Martin, May 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2010
  7. TomVols

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    I agree totally.
     
  8. Havensdad

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    {quoted a post that was deleted per BB rules}
     
    #8 Havensdad, Jun 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2010
  9. Rhetorician

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    olefundybob Reply

    {removed quote of edited post per BB rules}

    Hello Dear oldfundybob,

    I want to welcome you to the BB. In this section we discuss, as gentle people, issues having to do with academics, degrees, schools, Bible colleges, seminaries and such.

    I opened the OP with just an observation that I thought many or my dear colleagues here might want to know of my experiences. I would be happy to answer any questions that you might have concerning CES if you wish to ask in a civilized manner? I would be more than happy to oblige you.

    And I just wonder what your particular issue is with the school. I am lettered and I have enough "learnins" to know if I want to be aligned with an institution or not.

    Please post a decent question and I will be glad to address it in a scholarly and/or gentlemanly manner.

    By the by, feel free to send me a private post or email.

    I await your response. Thank you very much. :smilewinkgrin:

    "That is all!"

    PS Do you realize that this is the fellowship section of the BB and not the "Fighting Fundamentist's" section?
     
    #9 Rhetorician, Jun 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2010
  10. TomVols

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    Moderator's note

    A quick reminder that has already been expressed: this is a fellowship forum and the bar is much lower here when talking about language that is inflammatory. It just won't be tolerated.
     
  11. Rhetorician

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    Tom Response

    Hello Tom,

    Did you mean this for me? If so I repent and apologize. :smilewinkgrin:

    Please advise when possible.

    "That is all!"
     
  12. TomVols

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    Actually, no :smilewinkgrin:

    You are a gentleman, and I appreciate you and your ministry as well as your demeanor.
     
  13. exscentric

    exscentric
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    Yep, but the de meaner he gets the.... uh ... oh, crawling back under me rock. :laugh:
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    The International Baptist Theological Seminary, IBTS, in Prague, Czech Republic is built on the SA or English model. In fact, their degrees are conferred by the University of Wales and, I believe, the Charles University in Prague. I may be wrong about Charles University. I have been impressed by the work I have seen done there. It is not an easy program ... no Ph.D. program is easy. There are some Americans and Canadians working on degrees at IBTS. The large majority of the students are from the old Warsaw Pact countries, a few from the Mid-East and occasionally from Africa. Being set up on an SA model the advanced degree students, especially those working on Ph.Ds travel to Prague two or three times a year for what they call "Intensives," where the student meets with his adviser, attends lectures, give lectures and gathers resources for his/her papers and thesis.

    The library at IBTS is the largest collection of theological books in English in continental Europe. About 75% of the collection is in English and the vast majority of the other 25% is in German.

    I though this bit of information might be of interest to you on this thread.
     
    #14 Crabtownboy, Jun 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2010
  15. paidagogos

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    Authority to grant degrees...........

    So, what is the source of their degree-granting authority? Are these PhDs recognized as comparable to a regionally accredited degree in the USA? Sounds interesting.........
     
  16. Rhetorician

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    Tom Response

    Tom,

    Thank you very much. But being a serious student of rhetoric as I am, I can tell with my keen analytical skills who is given to hyperbole. :thumbs:

    Thank you just the same. And I also hold you in high regard.

    "That is all!"
     
  17. Crabtownboy

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    IBTS is accredited through the University of Wales and the degrees are conferred by the University of Wales. IBTS is also accrediated by Czech Ministry of Education to grant a European Union degree.

    The degrees are recognized by seminaries in the US as accredited degrees. I have know several graduates who obtained teaching jobs at seminaries in the US.

    Lecturers: (Most of these folk travel to Prague for differing lengths of time each year to work with the students. This is not an exhaustive list and is not completely up to date. Other scholars come in for to lecture. Also a growing number of pastors, teachers and scholars are traveling to IBTS on their sabbaticals for personal research, study and writing. )

    Professor Graham W Ashworth CBE DL B. Arch.M.C.D. FRIBA FCIEH FIEnvSc FRSA FCMI
    Environment

    * President of the Foundation for Environmental Education
    * Research Professor, University of Salford


    Professor J.H.Y. Briggs MA FSA FRHistS
    Baptist and Anabaptist Studies

    * Regent’s Park College, University of Oxford

    Curriculum »

    Professor David R Holeton DTh PhD
    Theology and Liturgy

    * Hussite Faculty of Theology, Charles University



    Professor ThDr Jan Lášek
    Church History

    * Dean, Hussite Faculty of Theology, Charles University



    Professor I Howard Marshall
    Biblical Studies

    * MA (Aberdeen)
    * BD (Aberdeen)
    * BA (Cantab)
    * PhD (Aberdeen)
    * DD (Ashbury)

    Senior Research Fellows

    The Revd J Andrew Kirk

    * BD (London)
    * MA (Cambridge)
    * MPhil (London)
    * AKC



    The Revd Simon Oliver

    * MA (Oxford)
    * MA (Cambridge)
    * PhD (Cambridge)




    The Revd Dr Ian M Randall
    Director of the Institute of Baptist and Anabaptist studies

    * MA (Aberdeen University)
    * Certificate in Theology (Regent's Park College, Oxford)
    * MPhil (London Bible College)
    * PhD (University of Wales)
    * FRHistS

    Joined IBTS in: 1999

    Baptist and Anabaptist Studies and Church History

    The Revd Ruth M B Gouldbourne

    * MA (St Andrew University)
    * BD (King's College, London)
    * DPS (Spurgeon's College)
    * PhD (London University)


    The Revd Gregory L Nichols

    * BA (Moody)
    * MDiv (Wheaton)


    The Revd Dr Toivo Pilli
    The Revd Dr Toivo Pilli

    * B.A. (University of Tartu)
    * Th.M. (University of Tartu)
    * PhD (IBTS/Wales)

    Joined IBTS in: 2002



    Biblical Studies
    Dr Rollin G Grams
    Dr Rollin G Grams

    * B.A. (University of Michigan)
    * M.T.S. (Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary)
    * Ph.D.(Duke University)



    Dr Lydie Kucová

    * BA (Brunel)
    * MTh (Edinburgh)
    * PhD (Edinburgh)




    The Revd Robin L Routledge

    * MA (Cambridge)
    * BA (CNAA)
    * PhD (Sheffield)


    Theology, Applied Theology and Spirituality
    The Revd Fred Prudek BA ThM
    The Revd Fred Prudek BA ThM

    * BA (Stanford)
    * ThM (Dallas Theological Seminary)


    The Revd James G M Purves

    * LLB (Edinburgh)
    * BD (Edinburgh)
    * PhD (Aberdeen)


    Missiology

    Dr Wesley H Brown

    * BS (Gordon College)
    * M.Div (American Baptist Seminary of the West)
    * Ph.D (University of Southern California)



    David W Shenk

    * BA (Eastern Mennonite)
    * PhD (New York)
    * PhD (New York)


    Ethics, Education, Preaching and Practical Ministry

    Dr David M Brown

    * BA (Michigan State University)
    * M.Div (Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary)
    * Th.M (Princeton Theological Seminary)
    * Ph.D (Temple University)




    The Revd Dr. Jeff Carter

    * BSc. (Agr) NSAC, Canada
    * MRE Acadia Divinity College, Wolfville Canada
    * MDiv Acadia Divinity College. Wolfville Canada
    * DMin McMaster Divinity College, Hamilton Canada

    Curriculum »


    The Revd Alec Gilmore

    * MA (Manchester)
    * BD (Manchester)


    David R Goodbourn

    * BA (Durham)
    * MEd (Manchester)
    * PhD (Manchester)



    Dr Einike Pilli

    * BA (Estonian Baptist Seminary)
    * MA (Tartu)
    * DrTheol (Tartu)

    Curriculum »


    JUDr. Petra Veselá
    Lecturer in Law
    Lecturer in Environment

    * Mgr. in law (Charles University)
    * JUDr. (Charles University)
    * Dip. European Law (University of Cambridge)








    The Revd Professor Nancey Murphy

    * BA (Creighton)
    * PhD (Berkley)
    * Th.D (Berkley)



    The Revd Professor Glen H Stassen

    * BA (Virginia)
    * BD (Union, New York)
    * PhD (Duke)



    Dr Cheryl A Brown

    * BA (Oral Roberts University)
    * MA (Institute of Holy Land Studies)
    * Ph.D (University of California)


     
    #17 Crabtownboy, Jun 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2010

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