Confronting the ungodly and profane atheists.....warning...contains Second Commandment violations

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    There has been some discussion on how to "witness" to unsaved persons"
    Here we have such a profane person. If face to face with this individual, explain in 5-10 steps how you would confront such wickedness.
    How would you address the objections contained in this weak and profane video?

     
    #1 Iconoclast, Jan 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
  2. Rippon

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    I can't access the video. Could you outline it for me?

    Hey Icon: Your signature should read :"No one snowflake thinks it is the cause of the avalanche."
     
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  3. Iconoclast

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    Thanks for the correction!

    The person suggests that Christians are delusional;
    He does so by giving a brief cartoon version of the origin of Mormons
    Then the origin of Muslims.
    Then the origin of Christians.
    He shows in cartoon Joseph Smith being told by a "magical angel" about magical golden plates, magical seer stones, etc.....then he shows this bubble......he says everyone outside the bubble knows it is a fairy tail, there was no angel, plates, millions of jewish people living in America, because we see no evidence of any of these things....
    He then says that those who live IN THE BUBBLE are deluded persons.
    he does the same thing with a cartoon version of Muslims.....then suggests the same
    "bubble of delusion"
    Finally he does the same cartoon caricature of Christianity.....speaking of magic spirits, ghosts, suggesting the story of the incarnation is as false as the first two stories... then he suggests those in the bubble need to think there way out of the "bubble of delusion".

    He is very profane and smug....nevertheless.....this kind of argument is raised and needs to be addressed from time to time.....so I am asking each person ...how would they approach such a person, or such a profane argument.
     
  4. Rippon

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    Should we offer swine any pearls?

    That's one response.

    See what James White would do.

    He would probably address it on the Dividing Line as despicable as it is.
     
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  5. Iconoclast

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    If the profane person is out of control and irrational mt7:6 would come into play.
    I think there is a specific approach that we need to employ in such a situation.
    Certain truths have to be established right from the start.

    What should be some minimum beliefs that need to be established?
    What would be your apologetic?
    Let us say the fool in question is a sincere fool, list the steps of how you would engage this.
     
  6. agedman

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    The person who made the video assumes that because a "majority" are not embracing a certain thinking in which a subgroup does endorse, that the subgroup is then delusional. Then by attempting to use "show me the proof" (Missouri thinking), he would dismiss the subgroup, and such thinking is in itself delusional. It suggests that without tangible evidence there is no foundation for belief. But, isn't it true that one must first ask questions, establish some kind of criterion for research, and formulate a hypothesis as to the outcome before even applying scientific thinking? The video does none of these, rather draws conclusions based upon observation, alone, which has been shown is poor at best in drawing scientific conclusions.

    Then there is the problem of historical accuracy. Historically, the large group endorsement of a thinking is what is delusional and often inhumane.

    Example: Nazism and Communism, in the last century.

    Both were endorsed and very widely supported (in some manner still are) throughout the world. Yet, we understand that such is delusional.

    So, the point that the video maker is making is in fact delusional and without support.
     
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  7. DHK

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    Such a person would first have to "be made willing" to listen, which would involve a work of the Holy Spirit. If he is not willing to listen then there is no use in talking to him.
    Dispensing with what was said on Mormons and Muslims, address the errors stated about Christianity. But he must be willing to accept the account as it is in the Word of God, the Bible.
    Establish that Jesus Christ was a real person in history. There is plenty of evidence and it cannot be denied.
    Establish that not only did he live but that he did do miracles. History attests to that. There are many historians that attest to that. Why should opinion trump reality?
    Finally establish that the resurrection is one of the most historically attested facts in history. Many have done great research on this topic such as Joshua McDowell and others. His sarcasm and denial cannot refute the facts of history.
    The delusion is in the denial. What is the basis of the denial of the facts, and why are his "facts" distorted into lies?
    But, he must be willing to listen. If he isn't willing to listen then it is like throwing pearls before swine.
     
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  8. BrotherJoseph

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    Good point, especially the pearl before swine point if he isn't a willing listener. If he is a willing listener it is quite possible the Lord has already done a work on His hear so he will attend to what is said just as Lydia in Acts had her heart opened to do such.

    John McDowell though I disagree with his theology of "gospel regeneration" (I imagine you do not), helped me a great deal many years ago when I was in college and struggling with the question of is their historical evidence for Christ and the Bible outside of the source of the Bible alone. The Lord used his writings to strengthen my faith.
     
    #8 BrotherJoseph, Jan 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
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  9. Iconoclast

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    The very first thing that has to be established is Gen 1:1.

    It needs to be declared that God has indeed spoken and given meaning to everything that exists.

    The unbelief of the atheist does not alter reality.


    DHK


    1]
    Yes...exactly. This implies that we are to be in prayer even before we meet such an individual. We know they exist. We know they are out in the world. We know they need salvation to have life,and have their minds restored!

    2]
    Yes....He reveals what he believes to be" his strongman argument".....but being in rebellion to God and not yet able to understand the revelation of scripture in his sin darkened mind....we should address his philosophy head on....not with human philosophy, but rather declare truth from scripture against his false reasonings;
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    When i first saw this diagram years ago...this is the first thing that came into my mind....not only with this atheist but with all who come into my path ....We must establish the scriptures as the word of God written.....no scripture/ no salvation..
    This is always primary and central in any evangelistic effort.

    3]
    This is first up once the scriptures are established....The deity and incarnation....The supernatural must be introduced early on to declare the truth. As you said earlier....unless the Spirit is going to accompany this interaction it will just be us bearing witness against him.

    4]
    Exactly correct. This rebellious sinner has tried to start with a false premise. This has to be dismantled and truth needs to be declared. All sinners apart from Christ are living in a fantasy world. Biblical reality will triumph one way or another.

    5]
    .
    Yes... i would speak of the whole eschatological outlook...raised/ ascended/ reigning/returning/....white throne judgment..stressing that God has planned to save a multitude of sinners in His Son.
    At a point in time all will repent, and believe the gospel,and come to Jesus....those who do not come in this way will face the second death.

    6]
    While i have evidence that demands a verdict in my library and have heard Josh McDowell in person......I would use 1 cor 15, and the book of Acts and Hebrews to establish this instead.


    7]
    Agreed....Strange as it is... we find substantial agreement here....
    This was the exact kind of feedback I was looking for with this exercise.....As offensive as this person and his denials are...believers have truth and the Spirit as we are called to confront such persons...speaking the truth in love.Thumbsup
     
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  10. Iconoclast

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    Does anyone else have another approach to this person? or something to add along the way?
     
  11. JonC

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    I’ve spoken to a few people like that (not as straight forward in accusation, but believing that all religion is superstition to explain what was not understood). My best results has been to start off asking permission to explain my belief. Then I let him tear my comments to shreds, asking questions as we go along. Typically there is one sticking point to discuss, make a point and leave it at that. Pick up where you left off next time you meet. Will it work? No, of course not. There is nothing we can do to save people. But during the conversation God may convict and draw the person to himself. Not too long ago I had a young man tell me I had “led him to Christ.” I hadn’t seen him in a few months, and our conversation ended with us discussing the transcendence of God and the necessity of God to reveal himself to man. I took the time to listen to his views and answer his questions. The only indication that I ever had that God may use the conversations we had was that he always came back with questions.

    I think that genuinely engaging people is the key to evangelism. God will lead the conversation, or lead you out of the conversation.
     
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  12. Victorious

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    I haven't been on this forum since 2009 and came back for this very reason. I sometimes comment on current events such as the baker's who refused to participate in baking for a lesbian "wedding." I ALWAYS get opposition from those who oppose Christianity - the latest a self proclaimed pagan. What I have found over the years is that all the debate in the world won't budge a blind person. However, especially with the anti-Christian climate we are experiencing today, we need to stand firm in our faith. Where once I would spend much time in fruitless discussion, I now usually tell them to repent and come to Christ. I sometimes become involved in discussion if the Lord tells me to. It just seems to be something you just know. I tell them they are lost. I give them the gospel whether they want to hear or not. I give them scripture. My last words to them are usually "repent!" In the case of the pagan lady, I stayed firm, sensing that I was getting through. She finally revealed the reason she turned from Christianity and the hurt was evident. The last words from her were, "You are a nice person." We may never know how God's word works in a heart long after we have ended the discussion. That said, I have also told a couple of people they are "sons of the devil" and if they don't repent they will go to hell. That one is rare and concerns out and out satanists. Every scenario is different.
     

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