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Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    It's funny, b/c I still am not so convinced on certain textual matters like Dr. Black. But his influence on internal evidence has been pretty substantial for me. Internal evidence is corroborative but not probative.

    http://www.daveblackonline.com/synoptic_problem.htm
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I caught that. Clever!
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'll be waiting for your complete conversion. Dr. Black is probably set in his ways, though. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  4. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    Probably not the Comma (1 John 5:7-8) but the pericope of the woman taken in adultery (John 7:53-8:11).
     
  5. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    Right for Dr. Black. I still lean against the pericope adulterea as authentic.
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Oh shucks, you're right. I don't know why I can't keep the names for those two straight.
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Just wait until Dr. Robinson publishes his collation of all the mss. on the pericope adulterae.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Isn't the common consensus though that the woman caught in adultery story was indeed well known and attested to b many of the early cp probably really happened, but was church fathers, but that it was not seen as ever being part of the original text of the Gospel of the John?

    So was regarded as being a real story/historical accurate, but that John did Not pen that down to be included into his Gospel, but was a lter on addition, fill in ?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    is a difference between holding to an Electic viewpoint, or holding to the priority of the Critical Greek text?

    Aren't they saying same thing?

    And is the latest approach to say that the Alexandrian and bztd
    documents date from about same time period?
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Not exactly. "Eclectic" is a method of textual criticism wherein the Alexandrian is given priority as having the oldest mss. On the other hand, "Critical Greek text" is the Greek NT produced from the particular eclectic method of a few scholars.
    The work of Harry Sturz, delineated in his book The Byzantine Text-Type and New Testament Textual Criticism, proved that there are many Byz. readings just as old as the Alexandrian text, so his conclusion was that all text types should be considered equally in determining a reading. Some call this a conservative eclectic methods, but Dr. Black as mentioned above calls this the reasoned conservative method. It is not the same as the Byz. Priority method.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So this approach would be similiar to say the Niv, who used differing greek texts/sources , and took what they held to be the best one to go by?

    The greek text would be in the greek somewhat llike what the Nkjv had done, using TR as main textual base, but also marking down MT/CT renderings in the margins?

    And the apartutus of the Nestle-Aland Greek text, when it gives others textual varients, would be eclectic at that point?
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'm not quite sure of what points you are making here, since you are referencing several different texts in response to two different methods of textual criticism, the eclectic and the reasoned conservative. But I'll try to answer.

    The NIV is based on an eclectic text, slightly different from the Nestle-Aland/UBS (the same text in their latest incarnation). The NIV translators did their own eclectic textual criticism to choose some readings different from the critical Greek text.

    The NKJV is based completely on the TR, regardless of what KJVO people say. The differences between the KJV and NKJV are almost always translation differences, not textual differences. The reasoned conservative method would produce a Greek text with the pericope adulterae and longer ending of Mark, but without key TR passages such as 1 John 5:7 and Acts 8:37. There would be many other more minor differences with the TR or the Byzantine Textform.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the clarrification!

    So ther field of textual criticism appears to be in an ongoing flux, no standard 'this is it" state regarding how to view he original language texts, correct?
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    There is no consensus among textual critics, that is true.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So there is really no sound reason to say that the ONLY Greek text good to use is the TR/MT/CT etc, as all of them have essentially what the Lord wrote to us in the originals?

    More of a conviction/preference, then truth/facts?
     
  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, now you're away from the OP. :type:
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Just a follow up question...

    is there a standard greek text that you use for translation into Japanese?
     
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is japan still really hard nut to crack for jesus?

    Asking, as we helped to support a missionary there, who in 3 + years of outreach saw 7 come to faith in Christ!
     
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    After 150 years of Protestant missions, only 1% of Japanese claim to be Christian, including the Catholics and the cults (JWs & Mormons are strong). Compare that to most Muslim countries with up to 5% Christian. So I'd say the missionary you helped to support was doing a great job.
     
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