Congratulations, you are all evil sinners

your title should not read "you" but "we" or do you exclude yourself?

 

Well then, if he put ‘we’ instead of ‘you’, he could not have sounded so offensive. Lol

 

Well, John the Baptist was "saved" before he was born.

 

Saying that most Christians believe this is a blanket statement, which, perhaps, you are aware of. I find your approach hardly appealing if you are trying to "teach" someone as you say in your latest post. I sure wouldn't want to hear what you have to say if I believed that way. Your intention seems only prove that you're right. Sorry if this harsh, but I've seen this approach numerous times. Christianity isn't about gloating over what you know. It's about giving what you have in Christ.

As for this belief that man is born with a sinful nature, I definitely agree with this. I have never had any problems convincing the girls at the local JJC or the Girls' Home and even the natives in Africa that they are sinners by nature. There will always be those that would contend. Normally it is because they want to remain in their sinful condition and enjoy the temporary good feeling that it has to offer. I can't say I have ever met a Christian (and I have been in numerous churches, being a military brat, and also a college student) who believes this way.

 

Luke 11:13 does not say one word about being BORN with a sinful nature, it simply says these men were evil. It does not address whether they were born evil or became evil afterward. You are inserting your own presupposition into scripture.

Now, here is scripture that says God made men upright.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

The word "they" points directly back to the word "man" and shows this verse is speaking of all men, not just Adam and Eve.

Read any scripture concerning sin and you will see it shows man as first being upright, but going "astray" in sin, or "becoming" filthy, or "corrupting" themselves. To corrupt means to go from a good state to a bad state.

Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

This verse doesn't say men were born evil, it says all men had "corrupted" their way. They had gone from a good state to an evil state.

And what did Paul say in Romans 3 that is quoted so often?

Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Notice Paul said men have "become" unprofitable. This was taken from Psalm 14, where it says "become filthy". And can a person be "gone out" of their house unless they were first in their house?

Let me ask you, if you were born rich, would you tell people you "became" rich? No, of course not, because you were always rich.

But what if you were born poor, but worked hard and invested your money and became wealthy? Would you tell people you "became" rich? Yes!

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Let me ask you, does a leaf start out withered, dry, and brown? No, all leaves start our fresh, moist, and green. So this verse is not saying we are born sinful, it is in fact showing the exact opposite, that we started out upright like a new green leaf, but our sins and iniquities have "taken us away".

This is the problem, folks have been conditioned by false doctrine and do not even realize it. They believe all men are born sinful and evil, when that is not what the scriptures say. If they were to read scripture carefully without bias, they would see the scriptures teach we are all born upright, but that all men "go astray" or "go out of the way" and "become filthy".

Show where Jesus ever spoke evil of little children. Jesus, speaking of little children said, "of such is the kingdom of God".

Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Jesus NEVER spoke evil of little children, but only good. Jesus said unless we be "converted" and "become" as little children we shall not see the kingdom of God.

So, your post is error.

 

I do not believe men are BORN sinners, but that all men go astray soon after birth and become sinners. Read my last post.

 

your interpretations have been exposed and proven wrong so many times. your position has been proven wrong so many times. However, the proverb is true - "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still" or in Bibical expression - 1 Cor. 2:14