Conservative (?) American Baptists Bid Godspeed To Sodomy Condoning Churches

What!?

Daniel 5:25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

HankD

 

I don't condone ordination of homosexuals. My church doesn't condone ordination of homosexuals. We do believe that ALL sinners are welcome in our church. How about you, Mark?

 

Yes, Power Point. I was in a church in MO. in which the pastor was accused of being liberal because he played his acquistic (?) guitar for the choir specials. He also was a liberal because he allowed the children's church to happen in the evening service as well as the morning. Some times churches get really goofy over the use of new things.

Obviously this is not related to homosexuality issues. One thing that I see is that if a group of churches has begun down a path that is doctrinally slippery (to be nice) then it won't take long to get where this group is now. I agree, most churches probably should have pulled away long ago.

IMHO

 

Hmm, what do you think of the "Power Point" writing on the wall which upset king Belshazar:

Daniel 5
5 In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaister of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.
6 Then the king's countenance was changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his loins were loosed, and his knees smote one against another...

25 and this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

HankD

 

That depends on what you mean by "welcome in our church."

Any man - no matter how sinful - is welcome to attend our church meetings and hear the gospel. If the greatest sinner on earth was to repent, trust in Christ, and submit to scriptural baptism, he would be welcomed into the full fellowship of our church.

But if by "welcome in our church" you mean "welcome to be a communing and participating member" while impenitently engaging in immorality, then I most certainly say not. The Bible sets certain standards for church membership and sets guidlines for expelling members when they engage impenitently in sin.

If a member of our church declared himself or was known to be a "homosexual" - or liar, or theif, or drunkard, or adulterer, or heretic, etc. - he would be admonished to repent and if he did not we should - and would - in the words of Paul,

"put out from among yourselves that wicked person."

Do you have a problem with that? If so, your problem is with Christ and the apostles, not with me or the church I pastor.

Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]Have you ever engaged in immorality Mark? Remember Christ's definition:

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

My bet is you have (unless you're a homosexual). You're just as bad as they are. Actually worse because you're a hypocrite.

 

That's out of line, StraightAndNarrow. Mark is talking about a I Cor. 5 situation--someone habitually engaging in sexual sin. I think you owe him an apology.

 

I know that.

 

TinyTim,

Take a baptist history course in almost any baptist college accept for maybe an AB college and you will find that it is pretty commmon knowledge that the American Baptists were heading down the slippery slope of liberalism long ago.
If they weren't then why the exodus of so many back in the day? Tony Campolo teaches at an American Baptist College. He is basically pro homosexual.
It is amazing to me how some baptists, be it some SBC baptist or AB want to try and "work it out" with moderates/liberals. What is funny is the fact that whether it is in politics or theology when the shoe is on the other foot you'll never find a moderate/liberal who wants to partner with a conservative.
I personally don't want to fellowship with anyone or any group that doesnt' hold a high view of Scripture which would be to say that it is infallible and inerrant. That includes the people who don't take Gen.1-11 literally as well.
One of the key tenets of "Neo evangelicalism was to infiltrate liberalism instead of seperating from it . The idea was to form a dialogue with liberals in order to influence them etc... What bologna. That is why the NAE or is it the other group can't muster enough votes to kick a heretic like Clark Pinnnock out of their association. Somebody once said evangelicalism is about "3 miles wide and 3 inches deep" How true.

 

I've got a quick question.

What are your views concerning the parable of the wheat and tares and how does that parable shape your theology on seperation?

 

I would take a slightly different approach Mark (although the end product is the same: temporary removal of a sinning church member).

When there is no sin evidenced in the local church we are not to go on a "witch hunt" or "holy inquisition" to try to find out if and who in the local assembly are the "wheat" and who are the "tares".

But if a member is known (either in or out of the Church) as a doer of evil (as defined by the Scripture) then yes we must purge out the leaven. Of course there must be solid evidence.

And of course, the purging is two-fold, to keep the local church as pure as humanly possible and to give the sinning member more incentive to return to walking in the light.

HankD

[ October 21, 2005, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Our church was a member of the ABCUSA for over 100 years. Back when the conservatives left (I was a child at the time) our church elected to remain. Since Baptists have local authority, we continued to stay over the years even though the folks in Valley Forge were leaning more and more to the liberal side. We stayed even when the "Welcoming and Affirming" churches were brought in, under the premise that since it didn't affect us directly, we were not complicit in any way.

Then a predominantly gay Baptist church in California was rejected by the western region of ABCUSA. So they went shopping for denominational affiliation, and the Philadelphia Baptist Association (ABC of PA and Delaware) welcomed them with open arms. Our association! And we were in Philadelphia and they were in California! "Regions" are supposed to be geographic!

We took this as the last straw. Or at least some of us did. A painful debate began, between those who wanted to leave although reluctantly due to our long history, and those who thought we should stay. The ones who wanted to stay in the ABC could not understand the difference between loving the sinner and hating the sin. Many left the church, but those of us who stayed affiliated ourselves with CBA, who have been very gracious to us.

But it still hurts. I miss my ladyfriends from around the region, I miss attending our annual conferences, and I miss the good missionary work we did together. But we did the right thing. God has blessed our church with renewed growth, a dynamic new pastor, and even miracles in our midst. There comes a time when it has to be done. But it should never be done without much searching and prayer. And never in haste.

 

Debby, As baptists I'm afraid that we suffer from a lack of imagination. I mean, who would have imagined that churches could hop from one region to another. They simply found a loop-hole in the ABC policies.

That loop-hole is what we as WVBC and the IN/KY region are trying to close right now. The second reading of the resolution that will do this will be next month by the general board.

If it passes, it will not allow a church once it has been disfellowshipped to shop for regions to take it in. I agree that there comes a time when seperating has to be done, but never in haste. We have to look before we leap.

I am sorry you had to go through all you did.
Please pray for us as we struggle through all this in order to fight the good fight of faith.

Pray that the general board will be conservative this time around. They should have gotten the hint already.