Conservative Coalition Shattered?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Oct 12, 2005.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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    "...George W. Bush has shattered the coalition that brought and returned him to power in 2000 and 2004." - David Frum( LINK )

    If this is true, then I say good. If some conservatives are more interested in style points than in adding another vote to the SCOTUS to overturn Roe v. Wade then the coalition should shatter. Frum, Kristol, et al, can just go and form their own party and run their own candidate for president in 2008 and see how far he/she gets.
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I don't care if she has a third grade education as long as she is a pro-life conservative. I think you assume too much by thinking that she will overturn Roe...and based on what? Becuase she is a member of a certain Church? Because Bush sort of says so...but not really, and no commitments? Come on, Ken. You know better than that.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. fromtheright

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    Ken,

    Thanks much for the article. But it just makes me wonder about your pointing to Frum's "elitism" earlier as the source of his disappointment in Miers. I think his column reflects the reality demonstrated daily here: that lots of conservatives are dismayed at the choice. The list of those who oppose the choice heightens the absurdity of claiming it is elitism that prompts opposition to Miers.

    My bottom line is the same: neither you nor I have the faintest idea how Miers will stand when the opportunity arises to overturn Roe. All we can do is hope for the best. If she doesn't, I will feel betrayed. How about you? Or will you just answer, "That's politics"?

    I will say that the M&M/Barney story/argument was just plain stupid.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH
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    ftr,

    I know that you understand the an openly anti-Roe nominee would not clear the U.S. Senate. Therefore, those of us that want to see the abortion issue returned to the State legislatures cannot know for certain how a nominee will vote on the abortion issue. We can make our judgments, as I have about Roberts and Miers, but that is all. Of course, I will be disappointed on abortion and other issues if Roberts and Miers do not vote based on a strict reading of the federal constitution.
     
  5. fromtheright

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    Would it be accurate to characterize your and my positions on Miers and overturning Roe as faith and hope, respectively?
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Ken,

    If nominated, do you think that McConnel could have been confirmed? Would you have fought for that nomination? If you don't think he could have been, why did you waste all of that time and energy writing the president several months ago on his behalf? Don't you think he would have been a better pick than Miers...and is that really elitism to say so? Bush is a good guy, but he really doesn't like it when his side doesn't simply nod and go on. Take for example his treatment of the minutemen and Tancredo. Didn't he call the minutemen "vigilantes"? So, the minutemen are vigilantes because they disagree with playing politics with the border, and we are elitists because we disagree with playing politics with the next 2 generations (at least) on the Supreme Court?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. StefanM

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    I'm not sure Bush has the political capital to send anyone other than a stealth nominee through the Senate.
     
  8. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    Bush is too weak to do any better. The root of the problem is with Frist, who was betrayed by McCain and that gang by refusing to employ the nuclear option.

    The Senate is a bunch of pompous twits who cannot abide by majority rule so they let a minority of wealthy liberals like Ted Kennedy run everything. Eastern Republicans have voted liberal all my life and they are not about to stop now just because there is another Texan in the White House. Also, many Catholics are against the Evangelical Protestant Miers.

    Note that James Dobson and Jay Sekulow have endorsed Miers.

    My friends, conservatives just haven't paid their dues. The culture is rotten and conservatives need to realize it. We need to send missionaries to New England and other eastern states. The churches need to teach doctrine so that new Christians know what they believe and why they believe it.
     
  9. LadyEagle

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    Agreed. And, as Joseph has pointed out, look at the treatment of Tom Tancredo and the Minutemen. Not to mention his blatent neglect of our protecting our borders. President Bush may be a nice guy, but he is NOT a true conservative by any stretch of the imagination.

    And, just because someone belongs to an Evangelical pro-life church doesn't mean they personally agree with their church, either. One need only look as far as the diversity of opinions on the BB for a glaring example.
     
  10. JGrubbs

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    Because Karl Rove called them to encourage them to support the nomination. Karl Rove courted the conservative Christians to get Bush re-elected in 2004 and he knows who to call when he needs to drum up support from the conservative Christians.

    At first I wondered why the secular conservatives in the GOP were speaking out against Miers, while the Christian conservatives in the GOP were supporting her, now that I know about the phone calls from Karl Rove it all makes sense.
     
  11. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    Well, Grubbs, you ran off and supported another party and then you wonder why the GOP is weak?
     
  12. LadyEagle

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    Thanks, JGrubbs. That is exactly what I suspected.
     
  13. Johnv

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    Parroting Joseph somewhat, I don't care if she has a third grade education as long as she is a constitutional constructionist (and no, I don't use Roe v Wade as a litmust test to that end, though some do).

    LE correctly pointed out the treatment of Tom Tancredo and the Minutemen. As a volunteer on the Tancredo campaign, I can tell you this is an accurate assessment.
     
  14. poncho

    poncho
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    I believe Ron Paul was telling the truth when he said the conservative movement was co opted.

    I think the answer to this question is, globalists are in charge and they have infiltrated and saturated both of the main political parties. Makes no difference which party is in power they both work to meld America into a one world government with a total loss of our sovereignty to unelected global bureaucratic agencies.
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    As the old saying goes, "If you can't beat them, join them". Of course, the Republican version of that old saying is "Beat them first, and then join them, making sure they win next time".

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. poncho

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    Expanding on that if you can't get elected as a Democrat change into Republican clothing.
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Bush has, to my knowledge, always been a Republican...so your assertion is stupid.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. poncho

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    I was thinking more of his handlers. You know, the liberals that were mugged by reality. [​IMG]
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Are you telling me that they couldn't get elected as a Democrat? Did somebody forget to give Clinton that memo?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. poncho

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    I guess I could be mistaken Joseph. What with all the similarities between the two factions of the globalist party it's hard for me to keep track of labels anymore.

    Bill Clinton was/is a globalist also BTW. ;)
     

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