Conservative, liberal, other?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Stratiotes, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. Stratiotes

    Stratiotes
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  2. Daisy

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    Why do you ask? Don't our words tell more than a label? The problem with labels is that they do not mean the same thing to everyone.

    So far, only Pennsylvania Jim's description of "liberal" has my concurrance. The more common description "evil baby-killing tolitarian thieves with no morals and stinking values" - I just can't identify with that no matter how hard I try!
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    Introduction to Logic, Fifth Edition (Macmillan Publishing Co, 1978)
    pages 114-115

    Tandem fallacies of Composition is most common.

    A person has an attribute, they favor abortion for victims
    of rape. Type two fallacy of composition: all liberals favor abortion
    for victims of rape. Type one fallacy of composition:
    This person is liberal and is homophilic.
     
  4. Daisy

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    Oh.

    Now that I am on a different computer, it is apparent that you are not actually asking a question, but linking to an article. I, obviously, didn't get that before as the text is not specially colored or underlined unless my mouse happens to hover over it.

    So, from the site:
    I guess the question back to you, Stratiotes, is why have you posted this link?
     
  5. StraightAndNarrow

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    Which of these two labels, liberal or conservative, would you apply to the Apostle Paul:

    1) As a Pharasee beforee his Damascus Road experience, and

    2) As a devoted Christian after his Damascus Road experience.

    Remember that the label must be relative to the culture in the times Paul lived.

    Actually, the same question can be asked about Jesus Christ Himself during His ministry.
     
  6. Hardsheller

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    Pharisee = Conservative
    Christian = Radical
     
  7. Daisy

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    Hardsheller,

    Can't bring yourself to use the L-word for something positive, eh? **snork**
     
  8. Hardsheller

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    Daisy,

    I know a lot of nice Liberals. :D
     
  9. Turpius

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    What!? no choice for Fascist?? :rolleyes: ;)
     
  10. patrioticcamerican

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  11. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Conservative
     
  12. poncho

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    I don't know fer sure, lets see I'm pro-life (anti-abortion) against huge government growth as in leaps and bounds under Bush, against corporate control of Washington DC and the inhabitants thereof, wars for empire and corporate profit. I'm pro U.S Constitution and Bill and Rights, against the United Nations, and defecit spending.

    Guess that makes me a liberal... :rolleyes:
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Let me see...I voted for Bush. I guess in the eyes of the anti-war isolationists, that would make me a liberal... :rolleyes:
     
  14. poncho

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    Not so much a liberal as gullible... :D
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Thank you Michael Moore. You know how gullible us hillbillies here in Jesusland can be.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. GusTn

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    I am Conservative on Moral Issues , Liberal on Economic issues. I wonder what I would be Classified as ?
     
  17. ScottEmerson

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    I'm liberal on many economic issues, I disagree with the death penalty, I see much validity in affirmative action, I believe that abortion is wrong but that people should step up to the plate and counsel women and work with young people instead of just whining about it and trying to get things changed through pure political methods, I am very pro-gun control, and I believe that we spend too much money.

    I'm a moderate and a registered independent.
     
  18. gb93433

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    The conservatives and liberals both do damage to the spread of the gospel. Neither lives out what Jesus has called us to. Jesus has called us to be radical Christians.

    The conservative, moderates and liberals don't know what to do with a radical. Sometimes it is kind of fun to challenge some of those who label me. I like to ask them, "Who's living for Jesus Christ because of your life?" Almost always I get the same response. Their labels flies out the window when they are confronted with their real theology--the theology they live out.

    From the book Growing True Disciples by George Barna , pages 128 - 132


    Let's Be Real

    Truthfully, while disciple-making must be a priority for you, by whatever means you select, you must enter the process with your eyes open. What happens when you make true disciples - not just students or group members, but real zealots for Christ?

    Peoples lives change
    The collection of disciples - the true Church - gains favor with the world.
    Society is changed by the disciples.
    Society experiences turmoil as a result of the Church being true to God's truths and commands.
    Disciples are persecuted.

    Making disciples and being a disciple is not a complete joyride. Disciple-making is not the answer to every cultural problem that exists - in fact, an effective discipleship process may create new tensions and animosities within the culture as God's principles clash with Satan's principles in the battle of spiritual kingdoms. But the hardships that arise as a result of engagement in disciple-making are no excuse to avoid or minimize our devotion to the process and its outcomes; in fact, they are an indicator that the Church is being the Church. As long as the battle between good and evil persists, we will not experience a peaceful, loving, wholly satisfying society. However, while being avid, passionate disciples of Jesus Christ will not bring about the perfect society, the thrust to be true disciples is the answer for each of us, individually, in the quest to become pleasing and honorable people in God's eyes.

    We cannot help but have a positive impact on the world when we are being Christ-like, even though the results of our life may not always look pretty. Not even Jesus, the Son of God, the Prince of Peace, the Savior of Humankind, was loved by all people. If we follow His ways and His footsteps, we should not expect to be loved and accepted by everyone either. But God, the Father of Creation, was completely pleased with the work of the Son - and that was all that mattered to the Son. So Jesus is our model and that is our challenge: to gain the acceptance of the Father, by imitating the work of the Son, through the empowerment of the Spirit. The results that emerge are up to God to disentangle. That is a task clearly beyond our capabilities.

    When you hire people, you study their lives to look for clues as to what they will be like as an employee. When you buy products, you study the contents and reviews to determine which products will provide the outcomes you desire. As you strive to become a disciple and to make disciples, keep your eyes on the substance of the subject, whether it is you or someone whom you are discipling.


    Here's what you're looking for - and, if it's absent, what you are trying to infuse within the true disciple:
    the passion of Stephen
    the joy of the post-Pentecost apostles
    the integrity of Nathanael
    the availability of Mary
    the perseverance of Paul
    the transformation of Peter
    the wisdom of James
    the servanthood of Martha
    the love of John
    the generosity of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus
    the seriousness of John the Baptist
    the studiousness of Luke
    the humility and reverent faith of the centurion
    the evangelistic sharing of Andrew
    the character of Jesus


    None of these stalwarts of the faith (with the exception of Jesus) was a perfect representation of each of the qualities listed here. Each of these individuals stood out for a handful of qualities, and presumably worked on developing other qualities that brought them into greater conformity with Jesus' life. As you study their paths to glory keep in mind that even the models of our faith fell short of the glory of God. By our very nature, we always will; but by God's will, we must not accept our limitations as excuses to give up.

    The real obstacles to becoming a fully devoted, zealous disciple of Christ are not money, time, methods or knowledge. The major obstacle is the human heart. When that changes, all else changes. Jesus frequently reminded His disciples that the problem was not one of knowledge but of character The Pharisees had more religious knowledge than they knew what to do with but they lacked the character to apply it in ways that transformed themselves and their world. Judas spent many months living with Jesus, observing His ways and His miracles, learning timeless and transforming principles directly from the lips of the Master, and yet all of His knowledge and experience could not compensate for a wicked heart. A disciple is a person of Christian character. Just as Paul instructed his young disciple Timothy, if you develop appropriate character, the rest will follow.

    Go, Therefore...
    Be a true disciple. Go and make disciples.
    And what will it look like, when it works?

    True discipleship produces holistic personal transformation, not mere assimilation into a community of church members.

    True discipleship is witnessed by people who are determined to be a blessing to others - people who are never content to simply accept and enjoy God's blessings to them.

    True discipleship creates Christians who aggressively pursue spiritual growth rather than passively experience spiritual evolution.

    True discipleship spawns individuals who develop renewed lifestyles instead of believers who mechanically check off completed assignments on a developmental agenda.

    rue discipleship results in people who are more concerned about the quality of their character than the extent of their knowledge.

    rue discipleship builds churches known for their culture of love, commitment and service rather than for their events, information and programs.

    True discipleship facilitates people devoted to a lifelong journey to imitate Jesus Christ, rather than the completion of a short-term regimen of tasks and responsibilities.

    Do you passionately want to become a zealous disciple of Jesus Christ? Are you committed to bring others with you on that amazing journey?

    Discipleship is about complete obedience to the Word of God, driven by a heart that can stand to do nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing else. Can we fulfill this mammoth challenge? Jesus, our mentor, says we can. "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in Me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these..." (John 14:12)

    If you are devoted to the process of spiritual growth, and to allowing God's Holy Spirit to shape you on that journey, how you end up will bear scant resemblance to what you were when you began the journey.
     
  19. gb93433

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    The conservatives and liberals both do damage to the spread of the gospel. Neither lives out what Jesus has called us to. Jesus has called us to be radical Christians.

    The conservative, moderates and liberals don't know what to do with a radical. Sometimes it is kind of fun to challenge some of those who label me. I like to ask them, "Who's living for Jesus Christ because of your life?" Almost always I get the same response. Their labels flies out the window when they are confronted with their real theology--the theology they live out.

    From the book Growing True Disciples by George Barna , pages 128 - 132


    Let's Be Real

    Truthfully, while disciple-making must be a priority for you, by whatever means you select, you must enter the process with your eyes open. What happens when you make true disciples - not just students or group members, but real zealots for Christ?

    Peoples lives change
    The collection of disciples - the true Church - gains favor with the world.
    Society is changed by the disciples.
    Society experiences turmoil as a result of the Church being true to God's truths and commands.
    Disciples are persecuted.

    Making disc
     
  20. KenH

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    Most likely a populist.
     

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