contridiction?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by UnchartedSpirit, Apr 18, 2006.

  1. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    0
    Colossians 2:16-23
    16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not[d] seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
    20 Therefore,[e] if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.


    And: Colossians 3:1-11

    1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
    5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
    8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.


    :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
    How does this work out again?
     
  2. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    No contradiction here. In fact, it is a great side-by-side comparison of behavior which does not really matter and that which does. Keeping feasts, not eating pork, or food sacrificed to idols is not really important in the grand scheme of things. It is earthly. But "putting off" anger, wrath, etc. and the rest really is important. Those are heavenly matters. It's about priorities.
     
  3. epistemaniac

    epistemaniac
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    also, keep in mind that Paul was most likely protesting against some Gnostic heresies that had infiltrated the church, they were apparently advocating asceticism of certain kinds (don't touch etc), and certainly against some of the knowledge claims being made (self imposed religion, false humility), worshipping angels, being "puffed up" with (false) knowledge etc which supposedly set people apart from one another ie the "super" spiritual, those who knew the gnostic mysteries based on their so-called knowledge of the heavenlies, the divine emanations etc, instead Paul says that all are equal under the risen Christ...

    so the second passage is the "antidote" to the errors of Gnosticism from the first passage.....
     
  4. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    0
    So there are subjects in the NT as well as the OT that have do not pertain to today?
     
  5. ituttut

    ituttut
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for this post UnchartedSpirit. You see a problem, and perhaps I can help.

    This speaks to the Victory at the Cross. These verses tell us it is those keeping the Sabbaths, new moons, certain foods etc., doing the judging. It does not mean the Christians were doing these things required of those under law. Paul says he is afraid of those that put their faith in Holy Days of hours, days months, and times (Galatians 4:10-11).

    Any Holy Days we have today came by man, or to be more specific, the Catholic church. Baptist's in the 1800's did not observe Christmas, or any other Holy Days. The Christians in Paul's day didn't observe any days made up by man, or of any that were intended only for His people. Christ fulfilled every thing required of Him, for the nation of God's own people of whom Jesus said He came for. He had no friends, associates and didn't keep company with any heathen while He was on this earth. Anything remaining that has not be fulfilled of prophecy, will be done so after our rapture.

    We have to keep scripture within its context. Let's start at verse 1 and a few more for understanding of this chapter (and of Christianity understood) to see what Paul is talking about. The problem with Christians today is they don't understand their Christianity, meaning they don't under Paul's gospel, that "mystery" gospel that Christ from heaven gave to Paul. It scares us when we see it, so we reject and follow tradition of man.

    Verse 2 speaks of the" mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ".

    Verse 3 tells us of "treasures of wisdom and knowledge." We have to study these to make ourselves approved (grow up to a mature Christian).

    Verse 4 "any man should beguile you with enticing words." I believe here we must try to identify such people that "beguile". It is very easy to identify these people. They are someone we believe we can trust. They cannot be of a "cult"; not of a group of unbelievers. They must be believers in God, the same God as we believe in. They must look to have "clout" with God for us to Trust them. WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? Are they not of the "Jewish faith", those that Paul calls "troublers" in Galatians 1. We need to understand that Paul preaches to we "heathen Gentiles", and all today are put into that category. And our Gospel is not, and should have nothing to do with any ordinances they had, and none of their "rituals". You do elevate me and others of the "grace commission" when you say a "heretic", for that is what "they called Paul, those Judaziers of the Jerusalem church, both of the Pentecostal, and those of Moses' Law. In our "heresy" we Christians believe and worship God and believe all those things written in the law and in the prophets. But that is not written to we today. We must make up our minds if we are saved by "repenting of and being baptized for the remission of our sins", or of the Christian faith of "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

    We are not to take upon ourselves any part of the Pentecostal church, as from that church came the "troublers", the "Judaziers". Paul, Barnabas, and Titus went to Jerusalem to try and stop that church from having some of its members telling the Gentiles they had to become as they, the Jew to be saved. It continues to this day.

    To their credit James, Peter, John and the others powers of that church tried to stop it, but couldn't. They of the Jerusalem church shook hands with the powers of the Christian church in Antioch (Paul, Barnabas and Titus), "we will only preach our gospel to the Jew", and never to a Gentile (Galatians 1, and Acts 15).

    Can we identify those people today? Who or what church, or churches have or had rules on "meat", and "fish" on certain days". Who is it that worship "angels" in their piety? Who is it that started the "Holy Days of Christmas" and "Easter". These are not "biblical".
    Did Jesus really give himself on the Cross, and die for us? What are the "wages of sin"? Sin pays off in death. But Jesus did not sin? This should tell us something, and that something is what Love God must have for us for “He took upon Him the form of man.”, to be numbered with we transgressors Mark 15:8. God made himself "dirt" for us. Had God not had faith in Himself, you can bet he would have backed out, admitting He had bit off more than He could chew.

    What are we to make of this? If He died for us it means He "died our death". We must realize we should have died on that Cross for our Sins, but He took our place. When we accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we go to the Cross, and with Him we die. We are dead to the law, that curse that tells us we sin. When we go back to that Cross all of our sins have been forgiven. In the Spirit we live in Him with no sin, "for sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace",[/I] Romans 6:14.

    There are no contradictions in the "grace of God".
     

Share This Page

Loading...