Cooking with wine?

Larry,

I see what you are trying to say, but there is a bit of difference there. The alcolhol industry does not destroy lives anymore than the gun industry or bomb industry does. The one who destroys lives is the one who abuses the product. Pornography is sin in whatever small capasity its in alcolhol isn't until it becomes abused.

Keep in mind, God created men to be enticed by looks so porn would be dangerous to any man, but alcolhol is not the same for man as porn is.

Sue

 

Larry,
I think its a big difference. The scriptures dont say look at a little porn its good for you.
Russell

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: rhoneycutt ]

 

Larry said:

What if I wanted to purchase a little pornography?

Then you would be sinning, since the use of porn is a form of lust, which the Bible forbids.

The difference, however, is that unlike lust, alcohol per se is not forbidden in the Bible; in fact, it has five approved uses: celebration, thirst, medicinal, ceremonial, and aesthetic.

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ransom:
I have never been tempted to drink or use alcohol sinfully. If it is what I feel like and I have it available, then I drink it. If not, then I find something else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Proverbs 20:1, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

Proverbs 23:29-30, "Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine."

Proverbs 23:32-33, "At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things."

 

Pioneer there are scriptures which also say Wine is good for the stomach and others to say that its ok.

Sue

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ransom: I have never been tempted to drink or use alcohol sinfully.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Liar. Liar. Liar. Liar.

Just because you have justified your drinking habit in your own mind does not say it is right in the sight of God.

Drinking alcoholic beverages is sinful in the eyes of God. Each time you take a drink you are sinning. Pride goeth before destruction and destruction is headed your way.

P.S. If you are a Baptist, your church covenant has in it a statement that says that members promise to abstain from the sale and use of alcoholic beverages.

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pioneer:


P.S. If you are a Baptist, your church covenant has in it a statement that says that members promise to abstain from the sale and use of alcoholic beverages.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pioneer, I've read countless books on baptist heritage and baptist polity, and none of them identify abstinence from alcohol as a baptist distinctive.

In fact, three fellow baptist pastors (and one baptist chaplain) and I met for cocktails a couple of Friday's ago. We sat on the front porch of the parsonage/pastorium and had our respective beverages while watching the sun set and chatting with passersby. At no point did anyone even think the event was odd.

Joshua
(Who has an alcoholic beverage about once every 3 to four weeks, and never more than one)

 

I didn't say it was a Baptist distinctive.

P.S. I would dare say that since your are comfortable with your gross sins (I am not only talking about your drinking but also your promotion of homosexuality) that you are probably lost as goose on your way to hell. Repent! Repent! Repent!

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]

 

Pioneer,

It may be your personal conviction to not drink but that hardly makes it sinful. Its not sinful to drink but sinful to abuse alcolhol.

Sue

 

&lt; Drinking alcoholic beverages is sinful in the eyes of God. Each time you take a drink you are sinning. &gt;

In your own words, "Liar. Liar. Liar. Liar." Did Jesus connive at sinning at the Cana wedding (John 2:6-9)? Did Paul order Timothy to sin (I Timothy 5:23)?

&lt; If you are a Baptist, your church covenant has in it a statement that says that members promise to abstain from the sale and use of alcoholic beverages. &gt;

Any church which requires anything scripture does not require should be avoided.

Proverbs 31:6-- "Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts."

Do you obey this verse, or do you defy it?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larry:
What if I wanted to purchase a little pornography? Suppose I could handle it just fine and for the sake of this argument, lets say that lust wasn’t an issue. Would it be wrong of me to support an industry that ruins lives?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said Larry! Better yet, you could pull a clinton and smoke some pot....as long as you don't inhale! LOL

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rockfort: Proverbs 31:6-- "Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts."
Do you obey this verse, or do you defy it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's look at the whole passage:

Proverbs 31:4-7, "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."

#1 - Wine and strong drink causes a person to forget God's law.

#2 - Wine and strong drink causes a person to have a perverted judgment. In other words, he loses his God-given common sense.

#3 - Strong drink is for the one who is about to die. It will deaden the pain (and also send him to the grave quicker).

#4 - Wine is for those with heavy hearts so they can drown their sorrows (and wake up with a hangover the next morning).

These verses are not a scriptural command, as you presume, but they are illustrations to show the effects of alcohol on the human body.

Proverbs 23:29-35, "Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again."

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]

 

WHen I was going through chemo and radiation on my brain I had just gotten back in church after many years and I asked the pasto about the verse that spoke of giving strong drink to those who were terminally ill, or of heavy heart (at the time I qualified for both...and frankly, I was looking for an excuse!!!) He explained it to me and it really did make sense to me, although my flesh would have preferred otherwise! In the time this was written, they didn't have the medication we have. THey didn't have the anesthesia, they certainly didn't have the wide selection of pain medication that is available to us today. If we didn't have these medical advances and someone were in the situation of dying and being of heavy heart, I'd say sure, but we do have these things. And from anyone I know that drinks...and from what anyone here that has said they condone it and participate in it...not a single person here has said that they use it for those purposes anyways. Don't get all over me for saying that...i'm not trying to come across argumentative...just an observation

 

&lt; These verses are not a scriptural command, as you presume, but they are illustrations to show the effects of alcohol on the human body. &gt;

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."

This is very specific and denotative-- "GIVE...." Or is your Anglican Bible wrong here?

 

&lt; And from anyone I know that drinks...and from what anyone here that has said they condone it and participate in it...not a single person here has said that they use it for those purposes anyways. &gt;

As if it matters, that is MY reason for starting to take an occasional drink. After a few tastes of the stuff in teen years, I went from the age of 19 to 34 without taking a drink. But then I began experimenting because of my degenerative joint disease (resulting from my near-fatal motorcycle wreck at 14) which was so painful at times, and I discovered that it did help. I have never been a social drinker, though, and have never bought a drink at a bar or restaurant.

 

Indeed, it does matter - to the person using that verse to support drinking....yet at the same time saying that they simply see nothing wrong with it and they enjoy it so, they do it. They aren't sinning in what they do according to their interpretation, and I can believe that these people DON'T have a "problem" with alcohol...i'm not one who thinks everyone does. I guess, I just feel that even if the bible doesn't cleary state it would be sin...that doesn't mean that its wouldn't be. The best example in my own life I can come up with is this time when things were going pretty rough with my husband and I. He really struggled with opening himself up to anyone, just because he was raised in a very "COLD' environment. I was facing a very difficult time and really needed to have his support, he just didn't know how to give it...to me it seemed he just didn't want to. I happened to go to a place of business and ran into a man I once knew. He and I had dated before and circumstances prevented us from pursuing the relationship futher(he was still in med school). When I had dated him, he had all the qualities that at that moment my husband was lacking. He didn't do or say anything inappropriate but I had to make the decision to take whatever steps necessary to make sure I didn't have any contact with him. The bible doesn't tell me I can't talk to him or be friends, but I knew that I was in a vulnerable time in my life and even though at the time as is now I can say to you that I would NEVER betray my husband and commit that sin of adultery but at the same time...I know in my heart that yes, I could. My pride would like to think that I am stronger...but I'm not! God knows this. The best thing for me to do was to remove any temptation that I could possible control. The bible didn't say I had to, but knowing that I am a sinner, I knew that I NEEDED to. The minute I become confident that I won't fall in a certain area...I've dropped my shield..and you can guarantee that it is during this time the enemy will strike.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rockfort:
I began experimenting because of my degenerative joint disease ... which was so painful at times, and I discovered that it did help.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

degenerative joint disease = rheumatoid arthritis

My wife has rheumatoid arthritis and she has never used that as an excuse to drink alcoholic beverages. Why do you? BTW - Are you at the point of dying? If not, your support verse doesn't hold water.

Bro. Steve Smith

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]

 

I can't believe this thread is 6 pages long.

There is zero - nada - biblical command to abstain from wine. Jesus turned water into wine, and it was the "best of the best". Every biblcal admonishment is against drunkeness, not wine.

Having said that, if drinking wine causes the weaker brother to stumble, don't do it.

 

Pioneer said:

Proverbs 20:1, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

This is true. And one who does not drink past the point of sobriety is not "deceived thereby."

Proverbs 23:29-30, "Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine."

Since I do not "tarry long" at wine or seek "mixed wine," this verse is also N/A.

Proverbs 23:32-33,

As is this one.