Cooperation with Salvation

I'm sorry I misunderstood then. It certainly "sounded" that way when I read it.

This is very true.

 

Many Catholics would disagree with you on this assessment. However, you might get some quoting proverbs.

My family and many catholics have no problem with this verse.

Faith in operation not just a belief. Big difference. I refer you to James.

Yes they cannot.

They would say out of obedience. You have to understand the catholic relates baptism to circumcision and that Christ through his apostles commanded baptisms of entire households as in Cornelius, and the Jailer. Peter said

They see this as direct obedience not fear. The Catholic Church believes it to be more than a "church" in our modern lexicon but a "kingdom" to whom it populates with Catholics young and old a like. This is the significant doctrinal difference from other churches. Even Paul makes a correlation in Romans 4:11

and specifically in Col 2:11-12

This is how the CC sees baptism of infants and its correlation to the Kingdom. Its not really fear based at all but a building of the Kingdom in their minds.

I've just shown you there is in their sense.

I have and its clear it was an early practice in the early church I refer you to JND Kelly's early Christian doctrines. Though scripturally apart from Col. 2 and tying it with circumcision. I find scriptures are silent on infants and baptism also presupposes repentance. Which is an action that can only be done as an aware person.

though I find the scriptures used to support purgatory are weak at best I wonder if you understand the Catholic consept of purgatory. Clearly Purgatory has to do with theosis or divinization. The idea is all the things you hold onto in this life are wiped away. Not Purgatory is a state not as in a place as we understand it.

Yes and I'm uncomfortable with this. Yet as to it being based on

From My readings I doubt it. Its based on the consept of the community of believers. Thats where this doctrine of praying for those in the process of purgation get its hold. When some one physically dies they don't go away but remain part of the community. So its consern that they may recieve their hoped for rewards and attain theosis. Though for some I do not doubt it is out of fear. Certainly indulgences in the middle ages played on this fear.

The Catholic will deny you this one. And easily argue how is this any different from saying if your saved and don't live like you're supposed to you were never saved to begin with? Certainly the faith Doesn't give you license to live how ever evil-ly you want now does it? But a person on the road to salvation will be known by what he does. Again refer you to James.

Yes and no. No Catholic will say (without special revelation) that they've made it. Certainly, but they will support the guarantee that if they do not apostate heaven is theirs.

Again a mischaracterization. Though again many Catholics do hold this "fear" of yours but it comes from a lack of understanding their own faith.

Just to mess with you DHK. The bible also speaks of God as a terrible force not to be triffled with. People ask the mountains to fall on them rather than deal with God. For you DHK you don't even believe God is a God of love. Why may you ask? Well because (and I disagree with you) for you God only loves the elect he does not love anything not elect or that which will be redeemed. So God in your view is a God of limited love to only the elect. I honestly believe God loves the whole world even those he sends to hell.

I disagree God is a God of love and to be feared.

I believe you are correct in that there are RCC who opperated their faith in fear, I don't believe the religion is one of fear.

I don't think this is entirely true. How many teachings did Jesus do on hell? How many times did he say you must do this or be burned? I think you've lost a bit of balance here. Certainly, Billy Sunday would not hide from sermons on hell if it brought people to repentance. Or how about Jonathan Edwards sermon Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. Certainly you may believe Catholicism is a faith of Fear but don't deny fear has its place in our faith.

I explained why. Why do you keep asking?

Nope that wasn't the answer. Communion of Saints is the answer.

If anything they believe a greater number of people are more likely to be heard that are praying unceasingly. But again - communion of Saints.

And we are instructed to

God isn't mentioned here. Also do you confess your sins to other church members? If you don't don't you think you're missing out on healing. This confession thing isn't a big issue. I can tell you my sins and you pray for me and I'm healed. Certianly the passage dosen't signify an episcopal, or a bishop, but it seems to imply any member. However, we are asked to do this.

Nope they're just obeying James. Also note according to JND Kelly the early church had open confessions. You would stand up in the congregation and confess your sins. Funny how quickly that went away.

 

Scripture please.

expressing faith is cooperation.

That fact doesn't change.

They would not disagree there.

this point can be argued certainly it is a sticking point. However, are you going to the extreem and purposely live sinfully to prove the point? What did Paul say in Romans? God forbid!

I believe as I live this life I'm being purged of this world and will attain theosis (Christlikeness upon glory) and I'm not catholic.

And your point is? Catholics don't deny this.

Did you miss all the NT verses That says the church body is the body of Christ? DHK I would really love a sit down with you and my Catholic Family just to see the interaction. I have nothing to loose in this discussion because I'm not my family but my limited knowledge of the Catholic Faith and with my bias against it, I can show you how their doctrine might be arrived at via scriptures. I wonder how you would fare with someone who has a dog in the fight.

Once you come up with a difference that successfully holds water I may use it when speaking to them next. Nice try but your premise was wrong.