Cooperative Program Giving - Why the 10% Ideal?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Hardsheller, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
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    I've always wondered why Southern Baptists make a big deal over giving at least 10% of their local church budget to the Cooperative Program.

    Anything less than 10% is looked upon as being negative.

    I suspect the reasoning is that the tithe applies to the church as well.

    I know many SBC Churches that can't afford to give 10% but they do anyway and they rob the local ministry to pay for the National and International Ministry.

    They can't afford to pay the Pastor's Health Insurance Premium but they make sure they get the Cooperative Program money sent to Headquarters.
     
  2. Kiffin

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    Great comments Hardsheller. The problem I find with the SBC is that the Cooperative Program is the golden calf that unites us. If you have ever seen reports on how much some of the bureacracy in the SBC makes it will stun you. The Cooperative program does a lot of good but it needs reforming badly.
     
  3. Sola-Scriptura

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    The tithe is Old Covenant! In all of it's forms.
    This is just carry over from the confusion that surrounds which covenant we are under. This is a law requirement and we clearly are not under the law covenant. Let's not subjectively pick and choose which Old Covenant commands we think we should bring over to the New. Let's learn to let the New Testament scriptures tell us what is required of us.
     
  4. KPBAP

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    That sounds like an isolated problem.....I hope!!
    Twenty plus years ago, I know that it was "encouraged" for churches to TRY and give 10% not so much for the amount but as an example and encouragement for members to TITHE 10% and PLUS the strong emphasis that the SBC had on missions. The SBC is NOT (or well, used to not be) a PARENT company of the local church. I think it wrong NOT to take care of the pastor and family and meet their needs. If you do a study of the largest SBC churches in the US most give LESS than 5% to the Cooperative Program. Their emphasis is reversed. You, I am sure, have seen their pastors wearing their tailored suits, with french cuffs, cuff links and pocket squares and bringing home 6 figure salaries not counting "expenses". I am sorry that churches have skewed priorities!
     
  5. TomVols

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    Our church currently splits 10% between CP and local assoc.

    What do you think of the concept of the "church tithe" ????
     
  6. Baptist Believer

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    The church where I grew up used to send nearly 22% (it hovered around 21.7%) of budget receipts to the Cooperative Program.

    When a man who is now a big name in the SBC came to pastor, he started knocking down the amount sent the to Cooperative Program so they could pay additional staff members much larger salaries ("church professionals deserve 'professional salaries'") and perks - the pastoral staff made significantly more income than most in the congregation.

    While that pastor soon left to pastor a megachurch, the church has never again given that much to the Cooperative Program. I think that church gives somewhere close to 10% now.
     
  7. Speedpass

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    What is more important--how much money you give to the CP, or what percentage of funds you give to the CP?!? During the "resurgance/takeover", many moderates accused the ultra-conservative churches like Bellvue, FBC Atlanta, FBC Dallas, etc, of giving less than 10% to the CP.
     
  8. Hardsheller

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    When I served in a state where Southern Baptist work is small - we had Stewardship consultants come up from the Big State Convention that was "helping" us.

    I remember the guy saying in one of the conferences - "Your fixed costs in your church run somewhere between 85-89%. That's all expenses before Missions...."

    Then he said "You really need to lead your church to increase it's CP giving up to 10% at least and beyond that if you can."

    I got out my pencil and did some quick math. If our church's fixed costs were 89% of our receipts and they were running real close to that number then that meant we had 11% left over for Missions. Foreign, Home, State, Assoc and Local....

    I couldn't help but think, "No wonder our churches in these non-traditional SB states are weak - We're sending too much of our discretionary income to the CP!
     
  9. TomVols

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    Oh c'mon, no one wants to have a go at my question? [​IMG]
     
  10. go2church

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    For all the good that the CP has done, I would agree that there is a huge need for reform, way too much red tape. Tom, I don't get the whole tithe thing for the church either!
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    No where in Scripture is the Church given a goal of 10% or tithing to anything/anyone. That is poor understanding of the OT and inapplicable to the church today.

    BUT, having said that, why would a church today NOT give at least 10% to missions? Not to heirarchy salary like the Cooperative Program is alledged to be, but 10% to actual missions/project/missionaries.

    I have never been in a church that DIDN'T give a "tithe" (never use the term but we all understand what whe're talking about) to missions. Even our MISSION church that could not pay me a full salary or any benefit still set the example and principle of the world-wide vision by giving 10% to missions.
     
  12. TomVols

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    Ok. Let's assume that the tithe is still the norm for the Christian. Does that apply to the church as well?
     
  13. Sola-Scriptura

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    See, this is what this type of "assuming" does. If we assume it into the New Covenant, then is it 10% of gross, 10% of net, 10% to the church only or will we be struck down if we give 8.75% to the church and the rest to a radio ministry or whatever! The same happens when you try to "assume" the Sabbath into the New Covenant. Everything becomes subjective because there is no scripture to govern what we have brought over because we ought not to have brought it over. God loves a cheerful giver, so give for the needs as you see them. Bless others freely not under compulsion.
    Soli Deo Gloria.
     
  14. Trapper

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    I'm also sick and tired of all the giving to C.P. It would be fine if the money went to ministry purposes. Yet I'm afraid most of it is simply to fund the large govenment type program it has turned into. As a pastor that can't afford health insurance, it many times sickens me to pick up the monthly Baptist paper and see new secratarys added here and there. It just seems we give all our money to build new building and add new secratarys (which also receive </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> </pre>[/QUOTE]health insurance and retirement).
    Yours truely
    Ol Sick and Tired
     
  15. TomVols

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    Sola,
    While I appreciate where you're coming from, you're missing the point.

    To those who think CP just benefits bureacracy, you need to go visit the mission board headquarters. The offices are very sparse and small, even for higher ups. There is waste to be sure, but not what I'd call extravagance. I thank God for CP giving and the fact that it funds the preaching of the gospel and the training of gospel ministers at our seminaries.
     
  16. Hardsheller

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    It would seem to me that one thing we could do as Associations of Baptists would be to make sure all the pastors in our Association had adequate health insurance before we mailed off more money to Nashville or to our State Convention office.
     
  17. TomVols

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    Don't get me started on the Annuity Board's health programs!
     
  18. Hardsheller

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    Tom,

    Give the Annuity Board some credit. They got HMO's available here in Missouri for us. My premium went down from $1164 per month to $540.

    It's about time they got something right.

    The problem is - they're not doing it all across the nation. At my age, 57, I'm limited to where I can serve in the SBC unless the church is willing to foot the bill.
     
  19. TomVols

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    Don't come to TN then. My DOM pays about $1200 a month for his HMO through ABSBC
     
  20. Dr. Bob

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    You could be ifb like me and "missionary" status - which means NO retirement, and NO health or group life insurance.

    I am paying 100% out of my savings for my broken foot and all the neuropathy tests. But probably less than a month's premium from what YOU are describing.
     

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