Corn-based Ethanol: The Real Cost

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by freeatlast, May 13, 2011.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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  2. glfredrick

    glfredrick
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    Didn't read the blog yet, but common sense says that we cannot possibly "grow" ourselves out of fuel dependence. First, we have to eat, and growing fuel would take every acre of land now used to produce food (and still fall far short of daily requirements) and second, it is the most inefficient process, having to expend more fuel (as I'm sure the blog article stipulates) and manpower, not to mention about a year worth of growing time, to produce crops that then have to be inefficiently turned into fuel.

    There is NO magic bullet out there for energy independence, sa ve perhaps nuclear power, and we're all too frightened of that to use it the way we should.

    I can't wait until electric cars become prevalant and we start burning out the power grid that is already stressed beyond imagination... :wavey:

    Gonna be a lot of dark warm nights across America. :laugh:
     
  3. just-want-peace

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    More co-opting of "the government of the people" (HA!!) by the wacky enviro-mega-nuts.

    And our supposedly intelligent congress critters happily endorse such tripe since they are so far superior to us commoners!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    MARANATHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. exscentric

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    The electric folks are seriously worried about the electric cars. They figure the richer will buy more thus pockets of recharging in neighborhoods will cause serious rebuilding of the local lines/transformers etc.

    They are predicting some serious growing pains for them.
     
  5. billwald

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    Plus building a nuke plant in every metro area to make the electricity.
     
  6. Spear

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    http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/us-gas-addiction1.htm

    I think american consume more gasoline than their european equivalent (where i'm pretty sure gasoline is more expensive than in USA). Give up with those " Pickups " and " Big 4x4 ", and i think you'll start to consume less petrol. If it can comfort you, we're in this silly thing too, many people here buy 4x4 and pickups, even if they'll NEVER drive offroad or carry many things in the pickup rear platform ... that's just the way it is :)
     
  7. glfredrick

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    Some of our fuel use IS generated by the vehicles we prefer to use, but more -- much more -- is generated by the simple fact that America is not Europe. We do not have a unified rail service, we do not have available mass transit, our cities were not designed on the European model, and we typically have no alternative save for personal transportation to get to work, church, play, etc.

    [​IMG]

    Some Americans drive longer distances to work each day than it is possible to drive in Europe without leaving one's home country. Just the scale and scope of things...

    Another factor to consider is family size -- something that most Europeans will be confronted with very soon. America still has family size above replacement rate, unlike most of western Europe. Families need vehicles that will haul the 2+ kiddos, dog, gear, etc. Just cannot compare apples to oranges, vehicle wise.
     
  8. Spear

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    I think a general thing that could improve every western country's health (european/american) would be people to take a bike once they have to do 8 miles to go to work instead of taking their car. Considering overweight in all " modern " western countries, it would be good for gas, and for health :). You might think i'm saying something stupid, but when i consider the number of people i know who live close to their work and who won't take a bike for 5 little miles ... I'm sure i would, but i live 40 kilometers from work.
     
  9. targus

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    I am guessing that you chose where to work and where to live.

    Perhaps you could do your part by either changing jobs or where you live to get down to bike riding distance.
     
  10. Spear

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    I don't live close to where i work because it's too expensive to buy a house there, let's say 40 % more expensive than where i live. In our region, unemployment is near 20 %, so i'm trying to keep my job, and my wife works at the opposite direction, same distance, so we're " in the middle " :)

    Am i wrong by saying we should incite people who live close to their work, to use the subway if it exists, take the bus, the train when it's available, or ride a bike ?
     
  11. targus

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    You can say whatever you wish - I am just noticing the "do as I say not as I do" thing here.

    You made a choice to take the job that you did, as did your wife. You made a choice in where you live.

    The result is that you and your wife use gas to drive in the opposite directions to work.

    But that does not prevent you from judging the choices of others in the same regard.

    I see the humour in it and I doubt that it was lost on others.
     
  12. billwald

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    >I'm sure i would, but i live 40 kilometers from work.

    When you bought the house and/or took the job didn't you know gas would hit four or five bucks? How long ago? Have you considered a motorcycle?

    Boggles my mind that there are no cars for sale with engines of 50 HP or less. I probably drove 250K miles in 36 HP and 40 HP VWs and 120K miles in a 50 HP Chev and never had to shift down below 2nd gear to get over a mountain pass.
     
  13. Spear

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    I thought we were discussing how we could progressively improve things, by ideas, and so on ...

    I often wonder why a proposition can so often be considered some kind of lesson or whatelse, and not as an idea, a " why not " ?
     
  14. targus

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    So what percentage of your trips under eight miles do you ride a bike?

    To church?
    To the store?
    To doctor offices?
     
  15. Spear

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    I live in a 450 people area where there is no church, and so on. On sundays, i go with the kids to get the newspaper in the other village. When i lived closer to a big city, i took bus+subway or had a motorbike (mostly because it was cheaper in both cases).

    And YOU Targus, what do you think about the idea, would it be a good thing for people to use common transports (buses, etc ...) more often or use a bike when possible ? Don't we tend to take the car too easily ? Of course some live far from work, or are in bad health to bike, but the other ?
     
  16. targus

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    Again - all your choice.


    I ride my bicycle for enjoyment when the mood strikes.

    I choose to drive my car as I see fit.

    I believe that others are entitled to make their own decisions.
     
  17. Spear

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    The gasoline is rising, some countries like Spain are lowering the speed limits, some are trying to find new ways. Sometimes things have to be forced for a greater general interest than " i want to do as I want ". When i see on tv those who are raising hands with a big smile when they hear about " tight gas " exploitation, no matter if the ground becomes polluted as long as they put money in their pockets, or if it can keep them using their car and habits " the way they used to because they are entitled to make their own decisions ".
    If things remain so unstable or become more in middle orient countries, and that the barrel cost rises to 300 $, of course, those who can afford it will still do as they used to, driving their big Hummer, eating 30 liters per 100 km. I believe sometimes the general interest is greater than individual ones, and has to lead us or incite us to some decisions that we couldn't take because of our own individualism or selfishness.
     
  18. targus

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    Then you should take the plank out of your own eye first and move from that small village to a larger town where both you and your wife can find new jobs close enough to your new home there to ride bikes to work instead of driving.

    If you really mean what you say...
     
  19. Spear

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    I realize you never really debated, but kept saying " Do it yourself first ". I spent time giving arguments trying to share something or ideas about how we could improve things, i won't anymore, stay where you are, do what you want, and as many here, i'm sure if one day the " Evil State " decides for you or obliges you for a greater and more general interest than you own single person, you'll whine, even if things could have been discussed, shared, ideas given between reasonable people and solutions found before it is too late (50 years of petrol left is what they say).
     
    #19 Spear, May 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2011
  20. targus

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    Actually, what you did was give a list of things for other people to do.

    Then you gave your reasons for not doing them yourself... all of which are due to your personal choices.

    You chose to live in a small village distant from your work. Why don't you think about the greater general good and move? Get new jobs?

    Instead of making suggestions for the rest of us?

    Oh yes, it's because you are so interested in the greater good.

    Kind of like Al Gore. :rolleyes: Flying around the world in his private jets and traveling in a limo - to give lectures about what everyone else is supposed to sacrifice in the name of global warming.
     

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