Corporate&Individual Election

Before I address the rest of your post, I need to be clear about this.

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

Ok...

Does a nation have eyes other then the eyes of mankind?
Is the nation as a whole a prophet, or are MEN prophets to the nation?
Does the land mass rule the nation, or does a man/lady rule a nation?

Who delivered? men?
What voice did people hear in this verse? Was it the voice of the land, or the voice of a man that said..." Read this, I pray thee"

Can a nations land learn to read, or do men in that land learn to read?

Who draws near?
Is the mouth seen in verse 13 talking about the mouth of a river?
What land mass that you know has lips?
Can a land pay honor to you?
Is the word heart talking about the heardland?
Tell me, how does a land mass fear?
Precept of who?

Work among what? Land?
wise land?
prudent land?
Tell me how land hids itself.

Them? Who is them? maybe the hills?
How does a hill seek?
What works does a hill do?
Who is the "us" in..."Who seeth us?"
Who is the "us" in..."who knoweth us?"

Well....it does mean land......right?
:BangHead:

Game over SP. Stop twisting the Bible

 

OK teach me.

I give you...Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation
Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 18

Foreknow....
Greek----proginosko made of two words... "pro" and "ginōskō"

Pro means before
ginōskō means know.

Know is not just knowing something, but ginosko means know is in love someone on a personal level. The same word is used in Matt 1:25

And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

This verse is not saying Joseph did not know mary, in know about her, or even know what she was like, but it means Joseph did not love her in a personal "lover" type relationship.

Therefore it is easy to see the meaning as Whom God fore-loved.

********
predestinate
from two greek words....Pro you know about and horizō
Look real close to at the word "horizō"
Do you see the english word?

horizon means about the same thing in English as greek. It means to set limits. The limit that you can see is the horizon.

God sets in place before hand, or determines before hand, or decrees before hand, or ordains before hand those that he fore-loves.

*********
summorphos ([to be] conformed) means.... "with form"

With form of what?

*********
Son.

Whom he fore-loved he also ordains beforehand with forms of image of Son.(god the Son)

Now does God know everything about everyone? Yes.

If we read it like many all would be saved. For God foreknows facts about us all.

But when we read it as we should, God foreknows...loves us before we love Him...and elects us to be like His Son.

Whom is the key word who. Whom does He foreknow? those that he elects and make like his Son. Again does God not know all? yes, but whom He foreknows (loves) He elects to be Sons.

 

Scripture

We cannot fight the word of God. God is molding us like clay for honor.

Who God has chosen to do this to isn't the way men have decided. Many have chosen themselves to be this clay, but the clay God has chosen for this is those who put thier trust in Jesus.

Doesn't God have the right to choose who He wants to.

You can believe God, if you put your trust in Jesus you will not be disappointed.

We can play with God's word all we want to, but God had the bible tranlated right, it is forknew just like the scripture was translated.

He first loved us the world when He gave His Son, and whosoever believes in Him shall be saved.

 

psalms109:31

God has decided who He will make for honor. He has decided to those who are in Christ.

When you were apart from Jesus, He did nothing for you. He has chosen those in Christ.

People limit the words of Jesus for it is Spirit and life.

The words of Jesus is more powerful than men think it is, it can do anything to a man.

It does not incline men to believe.

What it does do it places two roads before the world to believe and be saved or not and be condemned.

The elect is Jesus, your only hope is Jesus.

Jesus is the elect and those who remain in Him and those are God's chosen. This was decided before the foundation of the world

Your elect that yopu are saying is the Jews, but God cut them out not because they were not chosen, but for unbelief and praise be to God that He included us non Jews to the believing Jews when they heard the Gospel of thier salvation having believed.

Through the words of Jesus that we are messengers of whosoever can enter.

So don't worry if you are not the elect or not, just trust in Jesus and you can, don't lesson to men they will lead you astray and you will not be disappointed.

 

Before I even look at your other responses -- ABSOLUTELY He does! And over the history of Israel He has! David's "lump" was unto honor -- Saul or Herod unto dishonor.

skypair

 

Oh, ye of little faith! You ask if a nation has eyes and claim that your "elect" nation of Gentiles DO have eyes! "I will call a nation that is no nation." Isa 65:1

James, you are not even trying at this. The "clay" is not only a nation but a people and a religion. I don't know why you are introducing the idea of "land" except in blind anger.

Count to ten, take a deep breath, go back, and reread the passage. Clearly those to whom the "book is sealed" -- those who are "unlearned" -- those who "draw near with their lips" -- are ISRAEL! Unless you are trying to insert Calvies into the context! :laugh: Are YOU the "potter's clay??"

skypair

 

James,

Interesting. So what proof do you have of "adoption" which adoption really doesn't happen until was are raptured? And what are the "inward evidences of those graces" to which the WCF refers??

OOH! Now that is scarey! Does the WCF say that we can lose our salvation if we don't "preserve" it unless it is "revived???" What if is isn't revived?? Are we -- were we -- lost?

Well, the passage is certainly about BELIEVERS. The question really is "Does He MAKE them believe? OR do they believe on their own?"

What you are believing is kinda like "Russian roulette," isn't it? You THINK the "chamber" is "empty" -- I think the "chamber" is "loaded." Are you sure you are READY to "pull the trigger?" Based on what? I base what I believe on the Bible. You base what you believe on Calvinist interpretation. Go ahead --
pull the trigger."

Are you sure God "foreloved" you? That God "elected" you? Or would you rather look into His word -- the "chamber" -- before you "pull the trigger?" Who did you believe -- Calvin or God? Calvin says the chamber is empty -- God says that unless you CHOOSE, the chamber is likely loaded. There may be "another day" but there is no guarantee of that.

And I would supmit that YOU have done this but you are not teaching others good "firearms safety." :tear: You are likely telling them "No big whoop. If you understand Calvinism, you're safe. No one who does not understand Calvinism is lost but those who understand Calvinism -- well, that's the 'gospel.' You're safe."

skypair

 

shhhh!:sleeping_2:

don't bring up adoption, they might wake up and smell the coffee!

 

I think you need to listen to your own advice to listen instead lesson. I can see why God has hidden the truth from the wise and learned.

There was many people who believed before they were regenerated, but you don't want to listen, you want to lesson me.

Those who trust in Jesus unregenerated will be regenerated and be saved, they will not be disappointed.