Correct translation of Mark 16:17

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Jesus is Lord, Dec 27, 2003.

  1. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
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    "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils..." -KJV

    I have two questions concerning this verse:

    1. I read that the greek form refers explicitly to believers at that time. It is in no way a promise for people who believed after this was spoken by Jesus. Is that true (talking about the greek form, not theology)?

    2. I also heard that a more correct translation is "These signs will follow them who have believed...". Is this true?

    Thanks for your time and God bless.
     
  2. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769
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    Mar 16:17

    (ALT) "Now these signs will accompany the ones believing: they will cast out demons in My name; they will speak with new tongues [fig., languages];

    I don't know Greek, but I've found this translation to be incredibly literal:

    LITV

    It's based on the Majority Text.
     
  3. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
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    Good question!

    The verb here for believe is "pisteusasi". This is a participle in the aorist tense. The literal translation would be something like, "...shall follow them having believed". The "having believed" is the participle - it's not really a verb but an adjective modifying THEM.

    As for the time significance. This really comes from the context and not as much from the grammar/syntax. Jesus is saying to go out and preach the Gospel. These signs will follow His group of beievers (those who have believed)

    The aorist tense in Greek is the "workhorse" tense. Its time significance is really that it has no definite time significance! Thus the grammar here does NOT preclude more believers being "followed by signs". If however Mark had meant to be inclusive he would have used the subjunctive mood and not an indicative aorist participle! ;)
     
  4. Psalm145 3

    Psalm145 3
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    Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

    The context clearly shows that "them that believe" is referring to the Apostles only.

    Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat...

    Verse 20 describes the fulfillment.

    Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    The sign gifts confirmed the Apostles' authority.

    The KJV is a proper English translation of the New Testament Greek Words given by inspiration of God and divinely preserved intact.
     
  5. Askjo

    Askjo
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    Amen to that! Preach it! [​IMG] [​IMG] :D
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Three rules to undestand the scripture - context, context, context.
    So ask yourself the question of "WHO" after each phrase. Is Jesus talking to ONLY the disciples or is there a universal application to ALL believers in all ages?

    Can't divide it up randomly and out of context.

    1. Disciples (old believers) were to preach the Gospel
    2. People (next generation) will believe
    3. Signs will follow those who then believe
    4. New believers will cast out devils
    5. New believers will speak with new tongues
    6. New believers will take up serpents/poison

    Then:
    1. They (old believers) went forth, and preached every where
    2. The Lord working with them
    3. The Lord confirmed the preaching of the Word with signs
     
  7. HankD

    HankD
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    3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
    4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3
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    Where do you get such a statement as, "The context clearly shows that "them that believe" is referring to the Apostles only? Clearly, the preceeding verse shows otherwise:

    Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Methinks I smell another KJVO folly, based upon guesswork rather than FACT.
     
  9. RoleTroll

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    To the contrary, the context clearly shows that it refers to the new believers and not to the Apostles at all.
     
  10. RoleTroll

    RoleTroll
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    So ask yourself the question of "WHO" after each phrase. Is Jesus talking to ONLY the disciples or is there a universal application to ALL believers in all ages?

    Can't divide it up randomly and out of context.

    1. Disciples (old believers) were to preach the Gospel
    2. People (next generation) will believe
    3. Signs will follow those who then believe
    4. New believers will cast out devils
    5. New believers will speak with new tongues
    6. New believers will take up serpents/poison

    Then:
    1. They (old believers) went forth, and preached every where
    2. The Lord working with them
    3. The Lord confirmed the preaching of the Word with signs
    </font>[/QUOTE]Dr. Bob, you are certainly correct. It says that new believers will speak in tongues, cast out devils, handle snakes and drink poison without harm. However, "Christians" today don't do (all) these things. How do you reconcile the text with our modern reality? Did those signs only apply to new believers at that time, and not to new believers in our time?
     

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