Could God create someone like Himself?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Nov 14, 2013.

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  1. Skandelon

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    In another discussion a poster is attempting to argue that it would be impossible for God to create contra-causally free creatures, because that is a quality unique only to God.

    I have accused him of having a weak view of God because he is claiming God is unable to create someone who is free and responsible to make choices. He continues to argue that 'God can't create God,' as if God creating a free/responsible creature is equal to Him recreating himself.

    That got me to thinking. If God so desired, could He recreate a creature with His powers? Again, that is not what I'm saying God does. I simply believe God has created us in His imagine and with contra-causal free will, but I'm just taking this point a bit further for the sake of discussion.

    Why couldn't God, if He so chose, create a creature with abilities like His own?
     
  2. InTheLight

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    A sovereign, omnipotent God could so so, if He so pleased. Now why is it that Calvinists, who claim to believe in an all sovereign God, will limit sovereignty on a regular basis?

    Now back to the OP...
     
  3. preachinjesus

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    No He wouldn't for God (existing in Trinity) is an uncreated being. If God created another being "like" Him it wouldn't be "like" His since it would be created.

    That's all folks. :)
     
  4. Sapper Woody

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    That avoids the question. Contrary to what might be thought by the title, the OP didn't ask if God could create an uncreated being. He asked if God could create someone with His power. I believe He could. Won't, but could. Plus, I'm created in His image. In that respect, am like Him. "Like" does not necessitate a perfect copy.
     
  5. preacher4truth

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  6. Luke2427

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    You have to be more specific. Your query is too vague. In what ways do you mean that these creatures can be like God? There are some ways they can be and other ways in which they cannot be like God.

    There are attributes which are exclusive to the divine nature by necessity.

    Contingent beings- beings that look to another for there very existence cannot be eternal, self-existing, self-sustaining, creators of things from nothing, almighty, exhaustively sovereign, etc...
     
    #6 Luke2427, Nov 14, 2013
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  7. Skandelon

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    I would agree with that conclusion. It would be "like" or "in his image" but certainly not 'uncreated.' So, we could conclusive say God can't create an uncreated thing...but can we conclude that God can't create a responsible person?

    ('responsible' meaning "able to respond" in an real autonomous 'undetermined by another' manner)
     
  8. Skandelon

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    Right. :thumbs:
     
  9. Skandelon

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    Who, if not God, determines this? You? Is what is possible determined by the limits of your imagination?

    No one thus far, that I've seen, has attempted to claim that God has created such beings. But are you able to distinguish between the attributes you listed and the attribute of 'responsibility' (making choices)?
     
  10. percho

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    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:27 Why?

    Also, what was wrong with that image spoken of there? Was it perfect? Was it as perfect as this image?> Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15

    Of whom it is said; Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Rom 5:14

    But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? But now we see not yet all things put under him. from Heb 2

    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. from Heb 2:9
    And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
    Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:18, 15
    But God raised him from the dead: God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts 13:13,33
    For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9


    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


    What was God doing in Gen. 1:27 and Acts 13:30,33 and John 3:7
     
    #10 percho, Nov 14, 2013
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  11. Revmitchell

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    These kind of discussions are nothing more than a practice in absurdity coming from people trying to speak far above their pay grade. The fact is no one knows the answer, one way or another, about something like this. And discussions like this only serve, I repeat only serve, to puff up those who like to think they have more intellectual prowess than they actually do. This is nothing more than a practice in vanity and is just plain stupid.
     
  12. percho

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    Is it ok for me to disagree with you or is that stupidity? BTW my feeling will not be hurt by your answer.
     
  13. Sapper Woody

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    Actually, the argument you quoted has EVERYTHING to do with the foundations of many of our beliefs. Basically, it comes down to whether or not a man can be held accountable for his actions.

    As for the attitude of your post, why do you get to decide what is stupid? Have you ever argued over who's better, Dr J or Jordan? Or which football team has a harder season? Or ANYTHING? Speculation.

    And your condemnation of those involved is nothing short of prideful. As is your judging of their intents. Your post adds nothing to the discussion, other than to set yourself above everyone who has participated so far.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    I quoted only a portion of his post for brevity sake. The title of the thread is absurd. This is not discussed in scripture and people are trying to attribute things to God they cannot know or not know.
     
  15. preacher4truth

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    The OP is about whose God is the weaker God (allegedly to be proven in an absurd question and its answers) and follows the lines of disobedience to 2 Timothy 2:23 and the results of disobeying it.

    Yes, and we used to arm wrestle in high school too, or prior to that we heard 'my dad can whoop your dad'.

    1 Cor. 13:11 is in order here.
     
  16. Luke2427

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    Logic. God is logical. That's why 2+2 always equals four and that's why we can know ANYTHING.

    Logic is not something to which God must conform himself- it is what he IS.

    Much like God is love and God is holy- God is logical.

    Your question was without qualification. In what WAYS can we (or whatever God creates) be like God?

    Yes is the wrong answer to your question and "no" is the wrong answer to your question because your question was vague.

    You need to be more specific.

    You can't just ask, "Can God make creatures like himself?"

    It is too vague. Yes he can make creatures like himself in some ways (they can love, they can hate, etc...) but he cannot make creatures like himself in other ways (they cannot be eternal, almighty, exhaustively sovereign, and they cannot make things out of nothing [like choices for example]).

    All creatures must look to God for every ounce of strength they have to do anything (to walk, breathe, think, etc...).

    Therefore they cannot create things out of nothing.

    God can be the only uncaused cause. That is an exclusively divine attribute. Creatures cannot BE uncaused by definition (this is why logic must stand) and they cannot create uncaused anything which includes choices.
     
  17. preacher4truth

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    Actually, and I rarely agree with mitch, he is correct and is scriptural in his rebuke and reproof of the OP. :thumbsup:
     
  18. Skandelon

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    Thanks for joining in the "absurdity" with us.

    Again, thank you for joining with us lowly ones on this pay grade...

    Oh, surprise, surprise, instead of discussing the topic he resorts to ad hominem instead... Oh, can you please tell us on what pay grade of absurdity do those exist who resort to attacking other's character instead of discussing philosophical and theological issues on a forum created for such purposes?

    Maybe we can start a forum for people on YOUR pay grade so you can all get together and talk about how 'puffed up' each other appear and how "absurd" or "stupid" their thoughts are on various topics? :laugh:
     
  19. Skandelon

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    What kind of logic are you referring to? Syllogistic logic, Propositional logic, Predicate logic, Modal logic, Informal reasoning, Mathematical logic,Philosophical logic, Computational logic, or what? And what is the logical formulation which necessitates the impossibility of an infinite, omniscient Divine Being forming a creature with the ability to make choices that the Divine has not determined?

    I'll wait with great expectation to hear your response...

    Love, Logic and Holiness as defined by Plato, Socrates or Webster? Or by Luke?

    Or by God Himself? And can you provide that definition which necessitates the impossibility of an infinite, omniscient Divine Being forming a creature with the ability to make choices that the Divine has not determined?

    Oh, that's the problem...Ok

    Can God make creatures with ability to make choices that He doesn't determine?
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    No one who ever walked the face of the earth or will can our could address this. The danger of absurd discussions like this is that unnecessary and false doctrines arise out of them. Even "discussions" have repercussions. It is always in error to try to go beyond what scripture reveals.
     
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