Could you recommend some good books on

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Plain Old Bill, Aug 4, 2007.

  1. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
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    doing research? And could you recommend something that will teach parsing?I'm probably wrong but parsing looks like sentence diagramming to me.

    I put this down here because I know this is where the guys who would be able to help me hang out a lot.:godisgood:
     
  2. Rhetorician

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    POB Parsing Guide Response

    POB,

    Good to hear that you are "staying by the stuff" academically. I am at school and not at home where all of my books are. But I will be glad to get you a couple of titles when I get in this afternoon (if my old mind can remember?).

    First, are you doing Greek or Hebrew?

    Second, do you want to do "parsing" and "declining" or just "parsing" in the technical sense? i.e., are you doing verbs only or verbs and nouns?

    Let us know and we will recommend some titles.

    sdg!:thumbs:

    rd
     
  3. Plain Old Bill

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    Greek nouns ,just parsing. Thanks Rhet.:godisgood:
     
  4. Brandon C. Jones

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    Hello,

    A book on research that I recommend is Bradley and Muller's "Church History." They are writing to students in historical theology but their advice is rather broad. They are updating this manuscript since some of the things regarding computer research are outdated. Here's the amazon link http://www.amazon.com/dp/0802808263/?tag=baptis04-20

    BJ
     
  5. Rhetorician

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    POB Parsing and Declining Helps

    POB,

    I am sorry that I did not get back to you sooner. But here is a list of Greek help tools. I might add that they are good for the self-taught, the beginner, novice, or Greek reader.

    I would start with a good intro "baby Greek" grammar. There are many out there. The one I used was An Introductory Grammar of NT Greek by Paul Kaufman. ISBN #0-88021-060-5. It is old by today's standards but still a good one. You can also use Davis' Grammar who had an affiliation with A. T. Robertson I believe(?).

    A second help is just a good Interlinear like Interlinear Greek-English New Testament w/KJV. It has a Gk/Eng/ Lexicon and a NT synonyms list. ISBN # 0-8010-0700-3. These are good to use but can become a crutch if the new student is not careful.

    Thirdly, you might want to check out Sakae(sp?) Kubo's A Reader's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. It is laid out with the words that the new student or casual reader may not see and identify so easily. It is laid our verse by verse and book by book. That is what makes it easy to use but it is probably more of a tool for the person who has a little bit of expertise. ISBN # is 0-310-26920-2

    Fourth, and this may be the one that will help you as much as the Interlinear. It is Baker's Greek New Testament Series; Analytical Greek New Testament w/the Complete UBS Greek Text w/an Interlinear. It has every word, even the particles, declined and conjugated and parsed with its own key system. Now, you must know a little about the basics, like, what a nominative case is and does; that sort of thing. And it may be the best answer for your initial question. ISBN # is 0-8010-3496-5.

    If I had to recommend one to you it would be the last one above. Yet again, it requires some basic Greek skills in order to use it.

    I hope this helps!

    sdg!:thumbs:

    rd
     
  6. Rhetorician

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    POB Follow Up

    POB,

    FTR, (for the record). We parse verbs and decline nouns; if I remember anything about my Greek at all.:laugh:

    FYI!:thumbs:

    sdg!

    rd
     
  7. Plain Old Bill

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    In Mounces workbook which starts off with nouns there is a place for parsing. I thought that was a little premature or getting off to faster start than I knew how is why I asked.Thankyou for answering that for me.

    I have a couple of those already and am using them ,such as a parallel N.T.

    In addition did you come across any good titles on how to do research.I think of myself as a fairly good researcher,but then I don't know what I don't know.

    thanks for your help.:godisgood:
     
  8. Rhetorician

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    POB Reply

    POB,

    I got my research talents the old fashioned way; I earned them, in all of the seminary and grad school years and degrees that I have seen and to which I have been exposed.

    And as far as I am concerned one must follow the "Three Rs" to learn to do that type of work:

    1. Research;

    2. Research;

    3. Research!!

    Then you must WRITE, WRITE, AND THEN WRITE some more.

    Researching and then writing out what you have found via your research helps to concretize your thoughts. Then you can put them down on paper to see if you and others can follow the logic and flow of your thoughts.

    And it demands: WORK, WORK, AND THEN SOME MORE WORK to be proficient at it.

    Keep up the good work! Work at the the good work!

    Finally, I really don't know of a work that teaches one how to do research per se. Then again, "I don't know what I don't know!":laugh:

    Some of my academic colleagues may know of something?!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  9. Plain Old Bill

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    Rhet,
    What you describe is what I have been doing. I just hate to think there are other steps I could take that I don't know about. So I seek wiser heads such as yours,Uz's,Paids,Brodus, and Excentrics, all wiser than me.:godisgood:
     
  10. Rhetorician

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    POB #2 Response

    POB,

    That is why grad school and dissertation writing is so crucial. Most of us, who consider ourselves academics (?), keep trying to make a case "pro" strong, and rigorous, and academically accredited programs.

    There IS NO SUBSTITUTION for a grad school class where one has spent 30-40 hrs in some dusty library or on line, looking up info, sifting through it, compiling it, outlining it, trying to run down a source that someone told you might work for your topic or subject, labor to get the logic of thought and flow of argument clear, only to get the paper back and some prof has "bled all over it!!!!!!!" You expected a "A-" maybe you thought. But you got a "C+" and your prof says: "I gave you the 'C' out of grace or the goodness of my heart so you 'would not feel faint.'"

    As you can tell, I am a SLOW LEARNER, but it did not take me long to find out how to do the work. And somewhere in the mix I learned how, and what, and where to please the prof. But also along the way, I also found out how to do the work as well.

    It also is quite a motivator if one has $400.00 per semester hour laid out. And you know that in grad school you only get two "C's" and you must have a 3.0 GPA or higher, and that every "C" made must be retaken. Those are fine motivators for doing your best. I will tell you; you do not have to get back many "C+" grad papers to get you motivated and "learned" what to do and how to do it.

    That is one of the reasons all of us you mentioned above argue so hard and so often for rigorous education. If there is anything in this world that should be done as "unto the Lord" it is the minister's education!!!

    That it my "rant" or "testimony" whichever you want to call it.

    sdg!:thumbs:

    rd
     
  11. UZThD

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    ===

    I think that what Rhet advises you about doing research is very good. In my short lived experience of teaching graduate theology, I made it clear to the seminarians that their paper which was to be 20-30 pages would be carefully and equally evaluated on five criteria which IMO are important:

    (1) English grammar, punctuation, and spelling,

    (2) efficacy of argumentation and arrangement on the paper's thesis,

    (3) adherance to our seminary's format as found in Turabian and in the SBL Handbook of Style,

    and, here (4/5) are where the research comes into play,

    (4) the number and quality of the sources used,

    (5) the evidence of sufficient , efficient interaction with those sources.

    IMO, I could easily evidence that academic published theological literature often should be criticized for not doing well on the 5th criterion.

    So, eg, when my friend House with Geisler says in The Battle For God that Tertullian in Against Marcion supports the classical theistic view of man's will, I think they need to read Tertullian again. I agree with the doctrine of God's sovereignty, but that book by Geisler and House does not interact well with Tertullian, its source-IMO!

    Here, of course, is the great advantage of co-authorship: the other fella did the wrong.

    And if Rodman Williams teaches theology at Regent as he writes Theology in his Renewal Theology in asserting that unless the Father is the Cause of God the Son, there can be no Trinity because of what Buchsell says in TDNT, with zippo interaction with Buchsell, in an attempt to verify Bucsell's assertion,then here is proof that accreditation or accredited degrees do not guarantee there being evidence of the ability to research and/or teach with rigor!

    IMO, theological research is this: consult in a good number the very best sources on a topic or issue and carefully and thoroughly evidence interaction, ie, determine the validity,of the assumptions and assertions your sources make.

    Bill G
     
    #11 UZThD, Aug 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2007
  12. Rhetorician

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    UZ ThD Response

    Bill,

    I am glad to see you on the BB again. I was trying to follow one of your discussions on the http://www.degreediscussion.com bulletin board. I am much too lazy to read the entire post. But you alluded to the fact that something has happened to the seminary where you were teaching, and Wayne House, and such.

    We may need to start another post for this, and I invite one of the moderators to take it somewhere else if needs be.

    Bill, if you could help a confused friend out here I would greatly appreciate it? What exactly happened up there in the great northwest?

    Also, that you for the kind "amen" you gave me above.

    sdg!:thumbs:

    rd
     
  13. UZThD

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    #13 UZThD, Aug 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2007
  14. Rhetorician

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    UZ ThD Reponse

    Bill,

    You ought to get hooked up with Liberty's on line program. I am signed up with them and they have been wearing me out. Wayne Patton wanted me to teach 3 sections of Church History this Fall on the Bachelor's level. They also have courses on the Master's level. But that is done through the grad division. Their terms come around every eight weeks. They pay $700.00 per semester hour and use Blackboard. You might have to learn the delivery format but that would be no swear for you. You have an interest in teaching and DE. It would really be worth your while. PM me and I will give you the info if you want it. It is custom made for someone like you and me who got in the game late.

    Keep in touch!

    sdg!:thumbs:

    rd
     
  15. paidagogos

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    Encouragement!

    I applaud your taking up Greek through self-study. Way to go, Bill! It may be tough going but you will be a much better educated man than those guys with degree mill rags. The secret is to keep plugging away. When the going gets tough, know that you have some friends praying for you.

    Sounds as if you are using Mounce for your Greek study. Mounce is good but I also recommend looking at John Dobson's Learn New Testament Greek (see http://www.homeschoolchristian.com/Reviews/DobsonHebrewGreek.html). He comes highly recommended for those learning Greek or Hebrew on their own. I've reviewed his books and like his approach. There are many other self-taught Greek books of variable quality--some good, some bad. Part is simply personal preference.

    Concerning recommendations for a resource on parsing or declensions, have you seen George V. Wigram's Analytical Greek Lexicon? It is an older work (1852) but there are reprints floating around. Wesley J. Perschbacher (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0943575338/?tag=baptis04-20) has revised Wigram's work but I haven't reviewed it. Supposedly, Perschbacher made some improvements and corrections.
     
    #15 paidagogos, Aug 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2007
  16. Plain Old Bill

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    Thanks guys for the input. I'm hoping to print the whole page out then type up some guides to use.

    Hey Paid, thanks for the input, I'll be ordering the Greek and Hebrew by Dobson, never heard of that other guy though. there is lots of free stuff on the net I have been using. BTW I have finished 5 of the courses thru BTI,thru Gordon-Conwell, and 2 Thru Covenant. You have really pointed me to some good places.

    Uz, thanks for your help, I hope you get on with someone else real soon, will keep you in my prayers.
    :godisgood:
     
  17. Rhetorician

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    Paid Response

    Hey Paid,

    I just ordered Wesley J. Perschbacher on your recommendation. It had better be good!!!:laugh:

    sdg!

    rd:thumbs:
     
  18. paidagogos

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    Value of recommendations?

    Okay, I'll double your money back for the cost of the recommendation if you don't like it (2 x $0.00 = $0.00). :laugh:
     
  19. Plain Old Bill

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    I just read the reviews on the book by Pershbacker and I think I'll get that also. Thanks again Paid!:wavey:
     

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