Crammed down our throats?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Apr 12, 2010.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    From another thread

    How can a bill be 'crammed down our throats' when it was legally passed by legally elected representatives who face removal from office in just a few months if the people are really dissatisfied?
     
  2. Crabtownboy

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    It can't and wasn't. After all the bill was debated for months.

    The only case where I believe a bill can be rammed down out throats is when in a too fast reaction to a very emotional event, like 9/11 Congress acts rashly and passes a law in the heat of emotion without due consideration.
     
  3. Cutter

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    I think most people disagree with the handling of the bill prior to it's passage. Obama campaigned on openness and transparency in His Administration and on how legislation would be up for view, also how it would be shone on CSpan. I don't know the specifics of all of this, but I think you get my drift. In spite of the dissatisfaction with this bill, the Democrats were bound and determined to pass it and over look the concern of their constituents and the opposition of the Republicans, labeling them the party of "No." So I believe people are justified when they say the bill was forced down our collective throats.
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    If you are right then the people can fix it in November. Lets see if they do.
     
  5. abcgrad94

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    It was "crammed down our throats" by people who decided to vote for it despite the fact that the majority of voters were against it. Those folks, elected to represent us, chose NOT to listen to the voters. Some of them have chosen to "retire" so they cannot be voted out. The politicians who do face removal of office no longer care about the will of the people. They got what they wanted and that's all that matters to them now.

    The politicians were NOT transparent through ANY PART of the entire process, although transparency had been promised us. We the people did not have access to the bill, we the people were not represented, and we the people were not given sufficient time to even know what was going on.

    The politicians even admitted to NOT EVEN READING THE ENTIRE BILL, yet they were forced by Obama and Pelosi to vote for it.

    If this isn't a cram job, I don't know what is!
     
  6. Salty

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    Also many of the votes in Congress was "bought" by those in power - ie promise of pork for districts and States or Commonwealths
     
  7. Tom Bryant

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    Figured that CTB would find a way to turn it into an anti-Bush thread. I think he secretly has a thing for President Bush... :laugh:

    I agree that this bill wasn't crammed down out throats. They voted on it and now some like Congressman Stupak are saying they won't run again.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    That is the norm instead of the exception. All politics is local. If the people of America indeed see this as a cramming they can fix it. My guess is that pragmatism will win out.
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    What force was used?
     
  10. preachinjesus

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    I can't understand how this view of the United States Government keeps getting perpetuated.

    The elected members of Congress are under NO legal obligation to vote whatever the most recent poll tells them. They are elected by their constituents to be represent them but not necessarily the constituents' views.

    We live in a (repeat after me) federal constitutional republic and not a direct democracy. We elect representatives who vote according their personal views and are then reviewed by the voters every election cycle.

    For instance, the health care bill is a bad bill but no senator or congressman was under any legal or constitutional obligation to vote how the majority of the citizenry (in a sampled poll) viewed the bill. If the citizenry doesn't like their particular representatives' views on this, or any other, legislation they have the right to vote against them come the next election.

    It is a ridiculous argument to suggest that this bill was crammed anywhere other than through the constitutional process. Honestly, because of the divisive nature of the bill and because most voters are against it I suspect more than a few seats will be lost.

    Of course this relies on the Republican National Committee getting their house in order...which at this point is about as useful as their chairman suggesting he is a qualified leader (which he is most certainly not.)

    Retired or removal, the major portions of the bill can (and probably will be) overturned before they go into effect. This is part of our system...it does actually work.

    How much of your credit card statement, or bank statement, or legal papers for the last car/home/boat you purchased did you read? Did you read it all? Have you gone back and asked for the privacy disclosures for your credit card company? Because the reality is that with so much going on we all don't read everything. It is silly to suggest that this is a qualifying principle.

    Now if I were a congressman and someone asked me about this most important legislation and I told them I just never read it I would expect to be voted out of office for not doing my job. It's part of the system.
     
  11. Crabtownboy

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    You are far too sensitive. It was not meant as a criticism of Bush, but an example of a very emotional time. Pearl Harbor was also a very emotional time as was the assassination of JFK. I purposely did not mention any law that I felt was passed in the heat of emotion. Perhaps the internment of the Japanese who were legal citizens during FDR's administration may fit that ... I am not sure. That law, IMHO, whether rammed down the people's throat or not was wrong. Certainly it was rammed down the throats of the Japanese American citizens.
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    You are correct. I don't know how we got this notion that our representatives were no more than vote casting machines. Does anybody teach Civics any more?
     
  13. Tom Bryant

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    By the logic that it was voted on by legally elected members of Congress, the 9-11 bills were NOT rammed down our throats. Neither were those other laws. They were voted on. They may have been wrong laws - as this is a wrong law. But they are not rammed down out throats.

    And before you turn it into a discussion of the Japanese interment, that was wrong. But it was still not rammed down our throats.

    Not being sensitive just wanting some consistency on both sides. If it was voted in by the congress it wasn't rammed down our throats.

    In this case, the law will have several means of being overturned. It can be overturned by the courts ruling with those states who are bringing suit or by being overturned by another legally elected congress.
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Bingo! I wish I had put it so clearly :thumbsup:
     
  15. billwald

    billwald
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    When have politicians NOT been liars and money grubbers? Read the history and documents from the presidential election of 1800.
     
  16. Salty

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    Choice committee/chairman appointments, loss of staff, being denied campaign funds by various organizations, ect...

    Is that moral, No. Does it happen, Yes
     
  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    That's not forcing. That's pragmatism. They cannot be 'forced' to vote. Now, if indeed all of America opposes the bill, they won't have a seat, much less a committee appointment.
     
  18. Salty

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    Directly you are correct.
    However, the problem is a desire/need for power and to get and/or retain that power some, even many will bow to pressure, thus they allow themselves to be forced.
     
  19. Dragoon68

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    The results please some and disgust others! You can count me as one who's disgusted.

    The process was "legal" but not necessarily representative and certainly "crammed" through Congress over many objections.

    I think the problem, as so often seems the case, is that the squeaky wheel gets greased and those that keep on turning don't get heard.
     
  20. Trotter

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    I plan on it. My Reps voted against it. In fact, not a single Republican voted for it, and some democrats voted against it.

    I vote in every election I can, be it local, state, or national. That right cost far too much for me to squander it sitting on my butt griping about the government. While I may not be able to vote out any that said yes, I will do all I can to pump up the opposition to them.
     

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