CREATION: TWO BASIC VIEWS

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Alex, Jan 30, 2003.

  1. Alex

    Alex
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    Hello to all!! It has been 8 months or more since I have attempted any debates, starting or joining. I guess post-it burnt me out but also I have on-going serious health problems but now hope to get on more.

    This subject has been debated many times but a few days ago out Pastor made a comment that has me "fliped" again, meaning unsure.

    He was refering to the length of God's Creation. He was the Ministor for the Baptist Student Union at our local college for many years so I take what he says with much worth.

    He stated that he personally believes that creation started millions of years ago and it is not a sin to believe this as opposed to the 6 day 24 hours a day time line. Now as I thought about this, it occured to me that Adam and Eve only had around 48 hours to enjoy Eden and to fall into sin. This now leads me to believe in much longer Creation days, at least prior to their sins.

    The pastor also said that whether we like it or not, we have to deal with modern science and that they have to be more correct than previously thought. A point in mind is that back before Christ and even after for many years, the world was thought to be flat which has been proven as false.

    For myself, I thought like him for many years but then went back to 24 hour days of creation. The Gap Theory has some credence to it when you just read the first two verses in Genenis.

    I will now sit back and read your comments about this. It is accepted that Moses wrote Genesis but again there is no solid proof about this. Again, the main point I would like answered with a reason, does it really make any difference either way as long as Evolution isn't part of it?

    God Bless...........Alex

    [ January 30, 2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]
     
  2. Deacon

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    Alex, perhaps you can wait until February when the Creation/Evolution forum opens. This is such a divisive issue that things can get rather hot and un-baptist. [​IMG]
     
  3. The Harvest

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    i'm not going to get into this discussion with what i believe because i can see how this would get pretty nasty pretty quickly. but i am going to say this. for those of you who want to learn more about creation vs evolution, i suggest you check out Creation Science Evangelist Dr. Kent Hovind. he has a video series that explains in great detail how creation is true and evolution is false and that creation took place in 6 literal 24 hour days. you can buy the videos and then make copies of them and then send the videos back for a refund if you want. creation is a much bigger deal than a lot of people think. if the first few chapters of the Bible aren't true, then the rest of it has to be questioned. i urge you all to check out these videos. here's the website http://www.drdino.com/
     
  4. Alex

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    I may have not said the right things in my post as both you and Decon seem to assume I mean Evolution as one side. That is negative as I do not believe in Evolution, period. This post was only for the element of TIME in the Creation, so has nothing to do with Evolution. Actually, that is why I didn't post it under Creation Vs Evolution to start with. My Pastor doesn't believe in Evolution either.

    God Bless............Alex

    [ January 30, 2003, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]
     
  5. The Harvest

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    I may have not said the right things in my post as both you and Decon seem to assume I mean Evolution as one side. That is negative as I do not believe in Evolution, period. This post was only for the element of TIME in the Creation, so has nothing to do with Evolution. Actually, that is why I didn't post it under Creation Vs Evolution to start with. My Pastor doesn't believe in Evolution either.

    God Bless............Alex
    </font>[/QUOTE]i understood what you meant. but i thought i would take the opportunity to tell people about the videos because they deal with evolution and the literal six 24 hour day creation.
     
  6. Alex

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    Harvest:

    After reading your reply again, I have a collection of over a dozen Creation videos and know fully what you mean. I can assure you that on the other side of the coin, you can get just as many that make sense about Evolution but again Evolution isn't my question.

    On the time frame, whether millions of years or 6 24 hour days is the debatable issue and the question again, IS IT A SIN THAT WILL SEND YOU TO HELL TO BELIEVE IN MORE THAN A 24 HOUR DAY? Since so far it has been stated that this can become a heated issue, then many Baptists must believe in 24 hour days as well as many in a much longer time frame. There are many places in the Bible where scriptures are not GOD sent such as in some of Pauls letters to the Church at Corinth where he(Paul) says that some of his writings are from his own thoughts and nor devinely inspired. So, everything that we read may or may not be from God's guidance. The same could be with this time frame. Remember, God is not limited by 24 hour days for anything as He is not subject to time as we humans are. You also have to take into account the historical time that anything in the Bible occoured to properly discern it. I feel that you would agree that much in the time of Jesus doesn't apply to us now as His remarks were to the religious and Pagan leaders during His time.

    God Bless...........Alex

    [ January 30, 2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]
     
  7. The Harvest

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    is it a sin? no i don't think so. but there are so many people in the world today who are searching for ways to disprove the Bible that when people (Christians) openly disagree with it, it sows more doubt and causes unbelievers to stay unbelievers. (i'm not saying you disagree with the Bible, but some Christians do)


    i see your argument and have heard it before. it is true that some things Paul said, when he originally said them, he was not under inspiration. however, since all scripture is given by inspiration of God, once something said is placed into scripture it is then God's Words and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof etc...

    true. you could even say God is not limited by anything that has to do with us humans. but, when God is speaking to man (ie. telling us about the creation) why would he record for us that the creation was made in 6 days when it was really years. God knew that when a human heard the word "day" that he would think of a 24 hour period. if God had taken longer for the creation he would have told us how long it was. he could have said "and the evening and the morning was the first thousand years"

    well, now this depends exactly on what you mean here. i will agree that when Jesus spoke of other dispensations (like when he spoke of the Millenial Kingdom in Matthew) that doctrinally this doesn't apply to us today. but like 2 tim 3:16 says, all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable... so it might not be doctrinally applicable to us, but it will be either practically or spiritually applicable to us.

    hey, i would say we're doing a pretty good job of keeping this discussion civil wouldn't you? [​IMG]
     
  8. Bob Farnaby

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    In my bible (using both KJV and NIV) the gap between Genisis 1 v1 and Genisis 1 v2 is less than one millimeter, not a big gap at all. Not much room for a theory there ...
    Regards
    Bob
     
  9. The_Narrow_Road

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    To believe in the "gap theory" is to believe that there was a pre-adamic race of humanoids that died out because of Satan being cast out of Heaven onto the earth. Thus you reject the Scriptural fact that death came about because of the sin of Adam. By the way, everything was created in six 24 hour days. That doesn't mean that Adam and Eve only had 48 hours in the garden of Eden. The Scriptures don't say how long they were there, but the Scriptures do give Adams age. The gap theory is man's way of putting evolution into God's word. Just like evolution, the gap theory doesn't work. By the way, the Bible tells us that the Earth is round. The Bible isn't a Science book, but were it does talk about scientific things, it is CORRECT every time.

    The link below covers just some of the scientific facts discussed in the Holy Bible. You can also order the book available:
    http://wayofthemaster.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=122
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    Believing in OEC is not a sin that will send you to hell. It is however demonstrably wrong on teh basis of the text. The wording of Gen 1 intended to communicated 6 successive 24 hour days. If God had intended for us to understand long periods of time, he would have used language that would lead to such an understanding. As it is, he used language that has only one legitimate interpretation.

    It is also demonstrably wrong theologically. Sin is hte result of death. Any OEC theory has death prior to sin and that compromises the biblical text.

    When Scripture is the authority, 6 successive 24 hour days are the belief.
     
  11. Scott J

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    On what would you base this idea?

    I believe that they may have lived in the garden for years and am not aware of texts that say they didn't. We are told that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born and that appears to have been closely after Cain's crime and exile. Whether Adam's age count began at his formation or his expulsion from the garden, there is a good chance that he and Eve were in the garden for a considerable period.

    I would suspect a gap between Genesis 2 and 3 in which Adam and Eve lived in the garden while the earth was being populated with plant and animal life.
     
  12. romanbear

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    Hi Alex [​IMG]
    Here is something that has always puzzled me about creation.In Genesis 1 Adam was created after the trees and animals but,in Genesis 2 before the trees and animals.I've heard a lot of explanations for this and it is still is a puzzle to me and could have some thing to do with your questions as well.It seems to me that the writer Moses' was a little mixed up here.None of us know how long Adam was in the garden.In Genesis 2 it could be said that after the creation of Adam the creating was still going on.Instead of the other way around.
    Romanbear
     
  13. The_Narrow_Road

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    Romanbear,
    Check out this link: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c023.html The Bible can't contradict itself so there has to be a logical answer. We have to take the whole Bible into account, not just a chapter or two here and there. You can also visit www.AnswersinGenesis.org and click on the questions and answers part. Again, no evolutionist thinking is Biblically supported.
     
  14. Rev. Joshua

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    Romanbear, most Hebrew Bible scholars recognize those as two separate Creation accounts drawn from essentially the same Babylonian Creation myth.

    Joshua
     
  15. neal4christ

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    Why do you believe in the Bible if it is just a bunch of myths?

    Neal
     
  16. Grasshopper

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  17. romanbear

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    Hi everyone;
    I do not consider evolution in any way having part in God's creation.But to say that a creation day was 24 hours long as we know it, is just guessing. When it is a fact, that Astrophysicist have proven that the universe is slowing down.This would mean that when the universe was created it was moving much faster. If so. Then a day could have easily been much shorter than it is now.I will admit that these guys have been wrong in the past.Even though you have to admit they have been right to.But when you think about the possibilities of such a thing, it would make sense.Can God be limited by time, I don't think so.He created it. He can't be limited by it. He could have created it all in the twinkling of an eye.To speculate is one thing. stateing it as fact is another.When I can't prove that God exsist except with in myself and to my self. How you going to prove each day of creation was 24 hours? When you don't know for a fact that a day at creation was in fact 24 hours long as we know 24 hours now.Just because the sun rose and set does not in any way prove anything about time,Just days.A day at creation could have been a split second long and things began to slow down from the start like a spinning top.Slowing faster at first then it's own slowing, becoming slower as time moved on.I don't know for sure and I don't believe that anyone else does either.
    When God created the earth He could have considered this all him self. Life it self could have been much faster than it is now. Which would explain why men appeared to live as long as they did.As we move towards eternity time it self stops and we our selves will be beyond time That is those who believe in Christ.
    romanbear
     
  18. The_Narrow_Road

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    You'll have to go to the original Hebrew for the word "day". It is a literal 24 hour day. We know this by the context in which the word day is used in Genesis chapter one. If creation wasn't a literal six 24 hour days, then how can we know for sure that Adam lived all those hundreds of years, it could have been thousands if we accept that a day could mean something other than 24 hours. Also, we could take that thinking and apply it to the 3 days that Christ was to be in the tomb. See my point, it had to be six 24 hour days. What about the 40 days on the ark, was it a literal 40 days or possible 400 years? It boils down to "rightly dividing the word of God". I encourage you to visit the sites I suggested.

    In Christ, Kenneth
     
  19. neal4christ

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    I agree with you, Kenneth.

    Neal
     
  20. Grasshopper

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    http://www.reasons.org/resources/skeptics/whencreate.shtml?main

    Why, then, does Moses use the Hebrew word yowm, translated "day," for the six periods of creation? In English we would use words like "era," "age," or "epoch" to describe long periods of time. But, in Hebrew there are no such words. The word olam is often suggested, but it is defined as "forever," "perpetual," "lasting," "always," "of olden times," or "the remote past, future, or both." its range of usage does not include a set period of time. Thus, yowm would be the most appropriate Hebrew word to refer to a specific, though lengthy, period of time. Even in English we sometimes use the word day for an epoch, as in "the day of the Romans" or "the day of the dinosaurs."
     

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