credit cards, cash advance and title loans!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by menageriekeeper, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
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    The card playin' thread got me to thinking. (always dangerous I know)

    Is anyone else's part of the country simply inundated with offers for credit? Especially credit offers for those who already have a poor credit record?

    We worry over mundane things like playing cards, but how many families are being torn apart because they've bought into the buy now pay later advertising that is everywhere.

    As I drive into Birmingham there is a certain section about a mile long that has 20 or more cash advance/title loan establishments. I didn't understand how they could all stay in business until my husband told me of a report he read that said that folks who go that route pay 400% interest on what they borrow if they allow the loan to go past due. When one is already borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, how many do you think get caught in that trap?

    So lets have a discussion on the wisdom of borrowing money and whether or not a Christian should be in the business of lending.
     
  2. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    Too much debt can be a serious problem for many believers and families.

    Proverbs 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.
     
  3. Helen

    Helen
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    We have occasionally lent money privately to people. Most of the results have been very gratifying, but one way we have learned to deal with it in our hearts is to consider it a gift and then there is no disappointment if nothing comes back. It's not worth the friendships or pain to put someone else, or us, through the hassle of getting back money.

    BOOKS, now, that's another matter! I WISH people would 'lend back' our books!

    Back on topic....

    Lending as a business? Not for me! But I have appreciated Christians in banks who have helped out others with loans, so I can't criticize that kind of lending. The cheat cash places ought to be shut down, period.

    A lot of the title loan offers you see on the net and other places are very, very nasty. The 'low' payments they offer are interest only, and so the principle suddenly comes due in the full amount at the end of the term, and this can lead to bankruptcy in a hurry. People are not checking the rules and regulations of the loans they are getting.

    As far as credit cards go, we have two. They are convenient and get paid off in full each month. With one we get free airline miles and we have been very pleased with the service there and used them frequently. But there is only one time we 'loaned' to ourselves from one credit card to another, and that was when we were moving and knew the escrow check would be coming within a couple of weeks and so the payback would be well before the deadline and we would be fine.

    Yes, be very, very careful about all those 'offers.' The old economic principle still stands: there is no such thing as a free lunch.
     
  4. blackbird

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    Its hard not to borrow money to ---- say ---- purchase a house or a vehicle

    But for small items like household stuff---refrigs and freezers---furnature and small stuff like that---here's how my wife and I handle it

    We put money away into savings and when we have enough saved up for say---- a mattress/box spring set---we "borrow against ourselves"----we go withdraw the bula-bula from the savings and pay ourselves back however much until its payed

    We do not "lend" money to those who ask----rather--like Jesus commanded---we give not expecting anything in return!
     
  5. tinytim

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    Blackbird, what is a bula bula? lol
     
  6. blackbird

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    Doughnuts!!!

    Dough!!

    Dollar-reenies!!!

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s
     
  7. rbell

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    When I typed "bula bula" in Google, this is what image came up:

    [​IMG]

    I guess when money gets tight, blackbird finds a hive and sings "don't worry, bee happy."

    :laugh: :laugh:
     
  8. rbell

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    Blackbird's post + mine


    = "he sells honey."
     
  9. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Well, someone can throw some bula bula my way!!!
     
  10. webdog

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    I have just gotten into the lending business. I've done a couple hard money deals with a local real estate investor. I see this as business, and not a moral issue.
     
  11. corndogggy

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    A wise and highly successful businessman once told me:

    "Business is the art of taking money out of one man's wallet and putting it into yours without resorting to violence."

    I heard that well over 10 years ago, and apparently it's powerful enough to stick with me. The more time goes by, the more I see the wisdom and harsh truthfulness of this statement. ALL business is entangled in moral issues whether you like it or not.
     
    #11 corndogggy, Jan 10, 2007
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  12. corndogggy

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    Lending and borrowing can be just as corrupt or pure as you can imagine. For every totally innocent and bonafide lending deal that occurs, there is also a predatory lender making bogus loans to irresponsible folks who are already in over their heads. It's way too broad of an issue to put a general label on everything. You can't say that just because there are some predatory lenders and irrensponsible borrowers that the whole situation is sinful. That would mean that all banks are sinful. Do you have a bank account? If you believe this, and you do have a bank account, you're supporting the sinful. It's kind of a dumb thought.
     
  13. menageriekeeper

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    Adding to what corndoggy said: How much influence does your relationship to God have on your business dealings?

    Can a Christian separate his business life from his relationship with God or did we give God free reign over our entire life?
     
  14. Jon-Marc

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    I'm not sure about the borrowing part, but in this day and age you can't own a home or a car without borrowing unless you're rich enough to pay cash. As for loaning, Deut. 23:20 says that you can loan to a stranger and charge interest, but you cannot charge a brother in the Lord interest. I assume that would pertain to our sisters in the Lord as well.
     
  15. webdog

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    That might have been the "wise" and successful businessman's motto, but it is a false. What your friend said was basically being a thief... stealing. I supply a service in exchange for monetary compensation. Big difference. How is all business entangled in moral issues? Supplying parts for a punch press is moral? Repairing automobiles is moral? Lending money to an investor to purchase foreclosures in exchange for compensation is moral? Please explain. I understand that there could be morals involved in making decisions, but to state that all business is entanglement in morality is too much of a blanket statement.
     
    #15 webdog, Jan 12, 2007
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  16. webdog

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    This verse is taken out of context quite often, kind of like being "unequally yoked". It is in regards to the land of Israel, and not to modern day business. If it did, any Christian who has started a bank is in violation, and any believer who uses a bank is causing another believer to sin.
     
  17. webdog

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    If we are in the will of God, I believe God blesses our business ventures and gives us the wisdom needed. A Christian should never separate their relationship with God with ANYTHING, business included.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    Answer: unwise in both counts.
     
  19. webdog

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    A Christian should not own a bank?
     
  20. corndogggy

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    Not totally. Whatever you do can very much have moral issues involved. What if you mess up while providing this service but nobody knows? If your offered service suddenly became hard to get, would you take advantage of the situation and therefore harm customers? What if your work failed after some time but the cause was questionable, how would you handle a warranty type of situation? If a naive person such as a little old rich lady wanted to hire you, would you take advantage of the situation and let your services fall short, or would you go above and beyond expectations?


    I don't think it's a blanket statement at all. Every business faces moral issues non-stop whether they like it or not. Mindless worker ants just robotically doing a job wouldn't understand this, but within that same company there are others who have to face moral issues whether they approach it that way or not.

    As for the example about the "repairing automobiles... I can't believe that anybody would ask about that specific example. Mechanic shops are notorious for giving customers the short end of the stick. Say for instance a mechanic is working on your car and he slips off the loading ramps and damages it... but it's in a well concealed area. Should the mechanic bring it to everyone's attention? What if they're trying to fix something that should be a rather big deal, but they find that it's something else that is fixed nearly instantly? Should the mechanic stop the major work and only fix the very minor thing and not make much of anything, as opposed to making a bundle? What if a mechanic tells you that they only use premium parts, and they cost about twice what you could buy them at AutoZone for, yet come to find out all they do is run over to AutoZone and pick up those same parts themselves and double the price? All of these, and many more, are moral issues that a mechanic's shop must face on a regular basis. All of them have both the amount of financial gains and the amount of harming the customer in question, just like the lenders do.

    What it all comes down to is the question of whether they should get away with as much stuff as they legally can to benefit themselves, or whether they should pamper the customer and benefit the customer as much as possible, as both of those are far extremes. Since the reality is that a respected business can do neither of these, a moral businessman will constantly beat himself up over trying to find the perfect balance between the two extremes. The more that ANY business will slide towards getting away with as much as they legally can, the more immoral they are.

    The only difference is that you're saying that the mere existence of certain businesses in a certain field is the only moral downfall, but the reality is that those businesses could very well be moral while seemingly totally legit and innocent businesses could be much more immoral than you realize.
     
    #20 corndogggy, Jan 12, 2007
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