Criteria for Enabling Belief for the Select Elect

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by humblethinker, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. humblethinker

    humblethinker
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    A question for the Cals:

    What was the determining factor or factors regarding the choice of which people he would enable to believe? When God, prior to creation, chose whom he would enable to believe, did he choose them arbitrarily from among all the others or was there some other reason for him to enable belief for these specific people?
     
  2. salzer mtn

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    In Ephesians the first chapter you will find reasons why we were elected unto salvation. In verse five if you will put a period after the word before you will read, In love having predestinated us. You can see the comparison in Deut 7:7 when the Lord told Israel, The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But because the Lord loved you. In verse five of Eph. the scripture tells us it was because of the good pleasure of the Lords will, and then in verse six he say's he made us accepted in the beloved to the praise of the glory of his grace.
     
    #2 salzer mtn, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2013
  3. humblethinker

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    You seem to indicate that God tells us a criteria that he didn't use. What is the criteria that distinguished one from the other? This decision of God's being prior to creation, if all humans were all unlovely, then what was it that distinguished those he lovingly chose to enable to believe and those he chose not to enable to believe?
     
  4. InTheLight

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    Not a Cal, but I'm certain the answer will be "it's a mystery."
     
  5. kyredneck

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    Excellent comment.

    It's not a mystery, it's been explained several times over in the Book, the problem is that 'you people' don't want to hear it:

    3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish:
    4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
    5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus` sake.
    6 Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4

    It's really very very simple. 'You people' refuse to accept the simplicity of it.
     
  6. annsni

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    If there were criteria, then we could say "I was saved because I was better than the other person." But we know that it's NOTHING in us but just God's sovereign choice.
     
  7. InTheLight

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    What is the reason for Him to enable belief for these specific people and not others?

    Or if you like, "why was God pleased according to his will to predestine us to become as sons"?
     
  8. humblethinker

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    That doesn't answer the OP. The OP specifically addresses the 'sovereign choice'.
     
  9. kyredneck

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    'You people' expect us to know the mind of God other than what we've been told? Again, you refuse to accept what we've very plainly simply been told. The bottom line is that you don't like it, you don't agree, you have a problem with it, and you are replying back to God.

    Why can't you accept 'according to His good pleasure'? Why isn't that enough for you?
     
  10. InTheLight

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    Because we have friends and relatives that are going to Hell, and if we accept Calvinism the reason they are going there is because God didn't feel like saving them.
     
  11. kyredneck

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    How do you know they're going to hell?

    How do you know someone is going to heaven?

    How do you know what's in the heart?
     
  12. annsni

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    The "sovereign choice" is the answer to the question. There is nothing in any of us that causes God to choose us - whether we believe it's a people group He chooses or individuals.
     
  13. humblethinker

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    What is pleasing in enabling some to believe and not enabling all the rest? Not having a good answer for this is good reason to doubt ones confidence that they are of a correct opinion.
     
  14. Greektim

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    Actually, I think the answer could also be similar to what Paul said in Rom. 9, "Who are you, O man..."

    Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"
    Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
    Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
    Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
    Rom 9:23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory

    Kinda sounds like Ephesians 1 at the end there.

    Either way, my answer to the OP is... "Who are you to question God's motives???" God is God. He doesn't have to tell us why he did/does what he did/does beyond "it gave me pleasure and glory to do it that way."

    I am about to have my first child, and I pray and fast that she will be granted faith and repentance. But I also cherish God's glory more than my daughter, otherwise I would be an idolater. So I will trust he will accomplish his plan which will achieve his goal.
     
  15. InTheLight

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    They don't profess to believe in Jesus, actively reject Him, are professing atheists, and they live like the devil.

    <snip other questions, as they are an attempt to derail the thread>
     
  16. humblethinker

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    Of course he's sovereign, that is a given. Would you say that God arbitrarily chose to enable some to believe and not enable the rest?
     
  17. annsni

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    What does Scripture say?
     
  18. Greektim

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  19. Herald

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  20. salzer mtn

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    I have often heard people say, whether it be a preacher or a lay person, let God be Lord of your life. Most of these people tell you they are dedicated to the Lord and if you are dedicated then God is Lord of your life. A person that God is Lord of their life is a person that believes God is sovereign in all things, even salvation and we bow to Gods rule. A king is a person that rules. A king is a person that has the power to rule. A king, whether good or bad is not brought into question by his subjects. Most people that don't believe in the sovereignty of God accuse God of not being fair because he saves one and passes by another. The question is not, is God right because he does a certain thing, but God is right, regardless of whatever he does.
     
    #20 salzer mtn, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2013

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