Critical Texts?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by nate, Jan 7, 2006.

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Critical Texts?

  1. Just Critical Texts!

    56.3%
  2. Use Many Texts!

    21.9%
  3. Use just the TR!

    21.9%
  4. Use the Byzantine Text!

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  1. nate

    nate
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    Should modern Bible translations be based on just the Critical texts or should they be based on many differant texts? For instance should they just use NA and UBS or can/should they use TR, R/P Byzantine NT, W&H 1881 text and others?
     
  2. Askjo

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    Modern versions are based on different critical texts. [off topic comments snipped]

    1. Westcott/Hort Text
    2. Nestle text
    3. N/A text
    4. UBS Text
    5. Eclectic Texts

    The NKJV followed:
    6. Hodges/Farstad MT

    [ January 08, 2006, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  3. El_Guero

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    Which "TR"?
     
  4. TCassidy

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    No, it didn't. The NKJV is based on Scrivener's 1894 Greek text which compiled by researching the exact Greek words underlying the KJV.
     
  5. Askjo

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    No, it didn't. The NKJV is based on Scrivener's 1894 Greek text which compiled by researching the exact Greek words underlying the KJV. </font>[/QUOTE]Please read carefully and click here: the NKJV Greek text This book will tell you.
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Please stay on topic, the topic is which text(s) should be used, not which texts have been used in which translations.

    [ January 08, 2006, 02:30 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  7. TCassidy

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    Just one comment then back to the OP. Askjo, just because somebody publishes an interlinear with the NKJV and the HF Majority Text does not mean the NKJV is based on the Majority Text.

    I have an interlinear KJV and NA24. Does that prove the KJV is based on Nestle/Aland 24?
     
  8. tinytim

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    Askjo, I have that book, and the NKJV does not follow the HF.

    If you have this book, look up the famous passage in 1 JN 5:7-8. It is in the NKJV text, but is missing in the interlinear part.

    The NKJV text is on the side.
    TCassidy is right on this one.
    Now Back to the OP...

    I say use the oldest and most reliable.
     
  9. Hope of Glory

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    OK, I agree with you, but how do we determin "most reliable"? (I have an opinion, but I don't want to taint your answer, so I'll post it later.)
     
  10. TCassidy

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    And how do you determine that? How would you choose between p4 and p5, which date to the same period but follow different textforms?

    Or how would you evaluate p30 which is one of the oldest manuscripts but exhibits a mixed text?

    And what criteria do you use to determine what is "most reliable?" Wouldn't the text that reads closest to the autographs be "most reliable?" But isn't it the text of the autographs we are trying to determine? How can your criteria and your conclusion be the same thing?
     
  11. Askjo

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    Matthew 15:5 (Scrivener's 1894 Greek text)
    5υμεις δε λεγετε ος αν ειπη τω πατρι η τη μητρι δωρον ο εαν εξ εμου ωφεληθης και ου μη τιμηση τον πατερα αυτου η την μητερα αυτου

    Acts 7:5 (Scrivener's 1894 Greek text)
    5και ουκ εδωκεν αυτω κληρονομιαν εν αυτη ουδε βημα ποδος και επηγγειλατο αυτω δουναι εις κατασχεσιν αυτην και τω σπερματι αυτου μετ αυτον ουκ οντος αυτω τεκνου

    Matthew 15:5 (NKJV)
    But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God

    Acts 7:5 (NKJV)
    And God gave him no inheritance in it, not even enough to set his foot on. But even when Abraham had no child, He promised to give it to him for a possession, and to his descendants after him.

    I give you 2 verses on the NKJV for example. Please show me where this Scrivener's 1894 Greek text said, "God" on these 2 passages. If not, WHY did the NKJV add God without translating from this Greek text? Where did the NKJV get "God"?
     
  12. TCassidy

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    Mat 15:5 RPMT "umeis de legete os an eiph tw patri h th mhtpi dwpon o ean ez emou wfelhQhs kai ou mh timhon ton patera autou h thn mhtera autou."

    And the same for all the others. Once again you have passed on false information without bothering to check it for yourself. :(

    Oh, and, by the way, everything after wfelhQh is verse 6 in the MT, not verse five once again proving you can't even read Greek! Oh, and if you check the TR you will see the word "Qeou" in verse 6 also.
     
  13. Askjo

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    Sorry, you did not show me where "God" on verse 5 in the Greek text.

    I saw "Theo" on Matthew 15:6 in the Greek text. I also saw "God" on verse 5 AND 6 in the NKJV.

    Matthew 15:6 (1894 Scrivener New Testament)
    6και ηκυρωσατε την εντολην του θεου δια την παραδοσιν υμων

    Matthew 15:6 (NKJV)
    then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.

    WHERE did the NKJV get "God" on verse 5? Where is "God" on verse 5 in 1894 Scrivener Greek text?
     
  14. tinytim

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    OK, I agree with you, but how do we determin "most reliable"? (I have an opinion, but I don't want to taint your answer, so I'll post it later.) </font>[/QUOTE]To answer both yours and Tcassidy, I am not smart enough, nor do I intend to get into the art of Textual Criticism. God has not called me into that field. I will just have to trust the experts.

    Which experts do I trust? And how do I know which ones to trust?
    I'll use the advice my mother gave me long ago.

    Never trust someone that lies or bends the truth to prove a point.

    Usually I can spot exaggerism and falsehoods if I read enough stuff written by a con man.

    Also, I trust good brothers and sisters in the Lord.

    In all honesty, we will never have the translation problems answered until we get to the other side, we just have to work with what we got now.
     
  15. Hope of Glory

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    Well, that's a pretty good answer.

    That's why I was curious.

    Based on my research, I generally use the NA text, but do compare it to others. They do a thorough job of comparing the manuscripts by date, location, etc.
     
  16. TCassidy

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    It did not get the word from the Majority Text as you falsely claimed for it is not in the Majority Text in verse 5. So, one last time, somebody lied to you and you passed that lie along without bothering to check to see that it was a lie.
     
  17. TCassidy

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    So, you are saying you lack the expertise to make an informed choice, but you make a choice anyway based on what somebody else said? [off topic comments about a group of posters snipped]

    [ January 10, 2006, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  18. TCassidy

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    My NA/27 has by far the most exhaustive textual apparatus ever published. Much superior to UBS/4. [​IMG]
     
  19. Hope of Glory

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    Have you seen some of the changes in the upcoming NA28?

    I like the footnotes the best. They are easy to reference.
     
  20. TCassidy

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    I haven't seen it yet. I hope they make the textual apparatus easier to read. My old eyes are not what they used to be. [​IMG]
     
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