Critique of the ESV

So you are saying that the NKJV departs from the essentials of the faith?

 

Being honest here kurecki is basically saying, due to his kjvo position, that the ESV (and other modern translations) purposefully weaken doctrine. This is what evangelist6589 responded to and why I believe he said 'this is not true'. This had nothing to do with the inherent problems of translating from one language to another. That is another issue altogether.

 

Yes that is covered in the book "How to choose a translation for all its worth."

 

It sounded like it to me, but glad I was mistaken.

 

There are "past," "present," and "future" aspects to salvation. If we consider 1 Corinthians 1:18, the best translations read "are being saved" rather than "are saved." Everyone "in Christ" has been saved, but we are still undergoing progressive sanctification as we strive to become more like Christ and serve Him. Thus we are being saved. And our future salvation, the resurrection in glorified bodies awaits!

If we look a few words earlier in the verse we see either those who are perishing or that perish. Most folks agree salvation remains possible for the lost right up until they physically die. The idea is that so long as a person views the gospel as foolishness, they are perishing.

 

Right, but Jordan isn't arguing that translations are weakened due to being translated as it would destroy his KJVOnlyism. This was more of a belligerency toward modern versions. IOW his argument wasn't from a scholarly stance, but from a KJVO stance that is against modern versions. He wouldn't apply this standard to the KJV, just other texts. That was the only point I was trying to make.

 

The story is told of the English Salvation Army girl at the end of the 19th Century who got on a train and in her carriage found the famous Bishop Westcott sitting in his full Episcopalian regalia, with his mitre beside him on the next seat. this was too good an opportunity for the Sally Army girl to miss, so she asked, "Excuse me, Bishop, but is you saved?"
He replied, "My dear, do you mean have I been saved, am I being saved or will I be saved?"
The reply of the sally Army girl is unknown. She probably went off and got a cup of coffee, but (on this occasion) Bishop Westcott was quite right. I have been saved because Christ has died for my sins on the cross and I have trusted in Him for my salvation. I am being saved as He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake; and I will be saved on that Last Day when I am found to be in Christ Jesus with my sins remembered no more.

So I am inclined to agree with the NKJV and ESV translation of 1 Corinthians 1:18, or at least, I see no reason to disagree with it.

 

Yeah well I see the the Bishop Westcott as seeing himself 'in a state of salvation'. MM nailed it.

 

Yeah, I see that, and think you two are just talking past each other.

 

Do not miss the "those who will continue" in the lost state canard in the Adam Clarke snippet. The problem is some see the gospel as foolishness at one point in their life, but "come to their senses" and trust Christ at another point. Perish or perishing is not talking about a future condition (that perish) but their present state.

 

The verse (1 Cor. 1:18) has the Greek word translated "perishing" as present tense, not future tense. Thus, to claim the idea is that it applies to those who will continue to consider the gospel as foolishness is a canard, a falsehood, a fiction. And it this case the ESV has it right.

Pay no attention to those who characterize posters, rather than address the topic.

 

It applies to all who count it foolishness at any given moment in time. Nonetheless some have thought it foolishness at some point only to be regenerated and believe the Gospel at a latter point.

 

Spot on IT. (Other than "believe in God, then regenerated reversal slipped in.)