Cults and versions

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Sep 27, 2004.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Does anyone know what versions the various major cults used either at their foundation, or use today?

    What cults have been started using the NIV, the NKJV, or the NASV?

    I know that the Mormons use the KJV and that it is one of only two versions approved by the JWs.

    My point is clear - I LOVE my KJV and it is all I use. One arguement presented here though is concerning all of the error which has come in using other version. It needs to be pointed out that God's Word has always and will always be misused, no matter what version.
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    Seventh Day Adventist no longer recommend any "version". Their official commentary is based on the KJV. That is a de facto endorsement, methinks.

    BTW, the origins of the KJVonly movement are 100% in SDA missionary theology. Wonderful article verifying and substantiating this evil origin of that doctrine are found at:
    http://www.tegart.com/brian/bible/kjvonly/doug/kjvoroots.html
     
  3. David J

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    Does anyone know what versions the various major cults used either at their foundation, or use today?

    The only cults I've dealt with are Mormons and JW's. Both of these cults love the KJV. Some verses in the KJV are easily used to support the JW and Mormon doctrines.

    What cults have been started using the NIV, the NKJV, or the NASV?

    None that I know about. I would be greatly interested to read about this if anyone has more info.

    My point is clear - I LOVE my KJV and it is all I use. One arguement presented here though is concerning all of the error which has come in using other version. It needs to be pointed out that God's Word has always and will always be misused, no matter what version.

    Good point! When I am dealing with the cults known as JW's and Momons, I can destroy the myths with the KJV. The key is context of the scriptures. I use a NASB(1995) 99% of the time therefore my Mormon/JW's friends do not like my bible, so I simply use a KJV to prove the doctrines false that they hold to. It just takes more page flipping etc... with the KJV than the NASB. (Please NOTE THAT I AM NOT ATTACKING THE KJV BY SAYING THIS! I am pointing out that the KJV in context is very useful even when cults twist and mangle it).

    My Scofied KJV is about to fall apart [​IMG] I know the KJV very well [​IMG] Great bible translation that will always be dear to me.
     
  4. RaptureReady

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    What is the point of this topic? What edification is the brethen getting? Obviously the point is to discredit the King James Bible and therefore the brethen gets no edification, just doubts of God's word.

    I recall a visit by two mormon young men. They gave their spill and what they said sounded good. Everything was from the Bible, then they started in on the mormon bible which then I stopped them and asked them, "why do you need another bible, another new testament, when you have God's perfect word there in your hand, the King James Bible?" They said that they believe that Smith was given this new revelation from God himself. I looked at some of the passages in the mormon bible and some say the same thing that the KJB says, so how can this be a "new testament?" My point is, they believe that they need something else besides the KJB to complete God's word, so my question to you all is, what's the difference between them and you?

    God bless,
    RR
     
  5. Ransom

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    C4K asked:

    Does anyone know what versions the various major cults used either at their foundation, or use today?

    Hands down, the KJV is the big winner, being the official Bible of the Mormons ("so far as it is translated correctly"), the Seventh-day Adventists (KJV-onlyism started with a defense of Ellen G. White), and the JWs (until they managed to "translate" their own abomination). I have also heard a fair number of Oneness Pentecostals not only quote the KJV, but treat other translations with a fair bit of disdain.

    Most of the major cults formed back when the KJV was the only game in town, so this shouldn't come as a surprise. I personally suspect that part of its continued popularity in such groups has to do with the ease with which one can use its archaic English to obfuscate.

    What cults have been started using the NIV, the NKJV, or the NASV?

    I have heard from a friend, who was involved with the Ottawa Church of Christ for a number of years, that the International Churches of Christ are effectively, if not officially, NIV-only. The ICOC is of relatively recent origin, so this doesn't surprise me.
     
  6. Ransom

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    RaptureReady asked:

    What is the point of this topic? What edification is the brethen getting?

    Obviously, having the alleged Pure and Inerrant Word of God for English-speaking Peoples <tm> is no guarantee of sound doctrine.

    I find that to be a very useful and edifying fact. Don't you?
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    You are in complete and total error. Why would I seek to discredit the only Bible I use?

    It is an honest question, with the added point to prove that doctrinal error is not the blame of any version. It is the fault of false teachers and those who hate God's Word, no matter which version. The natural man hates the Word of God and will misuse it in every age.
     
  8. RaptureReady

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    "The natural man hates the Word of God and will misuse it in every age."
    I agree. What ways do you believe that they are misusing it?
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    Misusing it? By claiming only one English translation is God's Word. THAT is a trademark of one cult I deal with frequently.
     
  10. AVL1984

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    There are some "shoot off" groups here in TN that use the KJV as their Bible of choice. They are not doctrinally sound by any means, and meet all the criteria of being a cult. In fact, if I' not mistaken, some of the students of MTSU have started a meeting in a storefront here. I believe this group was originally started in East Tennessee in the hills somewhere. I'll have to see if I can find the name of them. I do know they teach that Jesus was just a prophet, and that for salvation we will have to go through the tribulation period. I've asked how those who've already passed on are going to be able to do this, or were they already lost...the answer was that they would be raised from the dead by God the father at the beginning of the tribulation and would have the chance to accept or reject "the mark" either of Satan or of God.
    Woah, buddy...mixed up crowd. I believe they are a split off the Holiness and CoG movements.

    AVL1984
     
  11. LarryN

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    In addition to those already mentioned here, leaders & groups that have been KJV-only or used the KJV exclusively include:

    1. David Koresh (Branch Davidians/Waco)

    2. Marshall Applewhite ("Heaven's Gate" cult/mass suicide)

    3. Jim Jones (Guyana/mass suicide)

    4. English-speaking Rastafarians
     
  12. LarryN

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    In addition to those already mentioned here, leaders & groups that have been KJV-only or used the KJV exclusively include:

    1. David Koresh (Branch Davidians/Waco)

    2. Marshall Applewhite ("Heaven's Gate" cult/mass suicide)

    3. Jim Jones (Guyana/mass suicide)

    4. English-speaking Rastafarians
    </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sure I'll get flamed for even raising this question, but here goes: After posting some of the people & groups I did above, the question occured to me if there is more than just a casual association that exists between these types of cultic groups and their preference for the KJV.

    Would anyone venture to say that there might exist some sort of symbiosis between these extreme cultic groups and their exclusive use of the KJV? These types of leaders/groups believe that they alone possess the truth (as perverse as their views of the "truth" might be); and KJVOnlyists believe that the KJV represents the only true & acceptable version of God's Word. Could that serve as a basis for some sort of instinctual, natural alliance? Thoughts?
     
  13. Ransom

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    I dunno. If there's any connection between the KJV-onlyists and those particular groups, I speculate it might be their tendency toward exclusivism of one kind or other. (I don't know much about the Rastafaris, though, so that may not even apply in their case.)
     
  14. James_Newman

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    I would surmise that Satan might use any means to discredit the KJV if indeed the KJV were the word of God. If indeed every cult in the world insisted that they could prove their doctrine in the KJV, and even that the KJV was the only perfect bible, I would not be shocked.
     
  15. Johnv

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    If a cult used, say, the NIV, would you also consider it non-edifying to point that out? Not likely. I see no attempt to discredit the KJV here (unless you consider KJVOism synonymous with the KJV).

    Note that the brother in the opening post says he loves the KJV. He simply has concerns over use of the same translation that he uses by cults or cult-like organizations. I fail to see how that's an attempt to discredit the KJV, especially since the general concensus is that he needn't be concerned about his use of the KJV just because a cult uses it as well.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I actually have no concerns that cults use it. my only point is that the whole arguement that error comes from any version is misplaced.

    Error does not come from a version, it comes from man's wicked hearts.

    If a cult were based and founded on the NIV it would be a MAJOR point for the KJVO extremists. That is my point here.
     
  17. James_Newman

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    Why does KJVO = EXTREMISM? Why not call us BIBLE NAZIS while your at it? Many KJVO adherants may be a little pushy in their insistance that you should only use the KJV, but I believe they are well intentioned. They believe that other versions have been perverted to obfuscate the truth. That does not mean they are worthless, just 'worth less' than the KJV. If they disagree with the KJV, the KJV is right, they are wrong. My conviction is the same, that if I have a perfect word of God available to me, I shouldn't use any other. If you choose not to believe that, then I guess it doesn't matter which version you read, because you will only believe it to the extent that you feel it is 'reliable' anyway. And there are certainly 'versions' out there that I would pitch straight in the trash (see The Message.)
     
  18. AVL1984

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    Amen, C4K. Now if only we could convince David Cloud of that :eek: ....LOL ;)

    AVL1984
     
  19. Pastor KevinR

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    The NYC Church(es) of Christ (last time I heard) are NIV only.
     
  20. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Bro James,

    You will note that I never claimed that. I used that to differentiate those who use only the KJV from those who hold extremist views on the KJV.

    This thread will not be derailed into a KJV/non-KJV debate. Please limit the discussion to versions and cults.

    I will close the thread before it is allowed to degenerate.
     

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