D. Min. Teaching Opportunities?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, May 1, 2007.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    Gentlemen,

    Lend me your ears:

    Should Doctor of Ministry degree holders be allowed to teach in liberal arts Christian colleges, Bible Colleges, Seminaries (accredited), universities, or grad schools of religion attached to universities? My assumption is that the D.Min. degree is the only doctorate the holder has "in hand."

    For the record, the D.Min. is a "terminal degree" and it is an "earned degree." I am assuming that the holder has received his from an ATS and RA school.

    Why?

    Why not?

    Please explain your rationale with your opinion.

    And I have broad shoulders, I can take it!!!!:laugh:

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #1 Rhetorician, May 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2007
  2. StefanM

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    I think a DMin. is appropriate for teaching in many instances.

    After all, one can teach (albeit without tenure) undergraduates with just a MA/MS.

    In most cases, though, a DMin should not teach the more "academic" disciplines on the graduate level, as those are more suited for one with the "academic" (as opposed to professional) degree. Ministry classes, though, are an excellent fit for DMins, as they have generally been involved in more full-time ministry than PhD professors.

    With undergraduates, though, I think a DMin is especially well-suited to teach the ministry classes and in some cases is suited to teach some of the more academic undergraduate courses.
     
  3. preachinjesus

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    I have no problem with someone with a reputible DMin to teach undergraduate courses at Christian college and universities. I don't think a DMin would do much good in the secular realm.

    Also I wouldn't think someone with just a DMin would be (for sake of accreditation and reputation) a good candidate to enlist at a seminary. They would need a PhD or EdD at some point, something more research oriented. I know that accreditting agencies frown on DMin degrees at the masters and above level in seminaries and universities.

    Most DMin degrees aren't awfully rigorous compared to PhD work. They are good if you are in full time vocational ministry but not if you are going into academia. The DMin has really just become a clergy advancement degree and people are seeing it for that. I'm not familiar with many DMins that require languages or high-end research and stats classes for entrace. They also usually end up being an advanced MDiv imho. At a seminary close to where I live the DMin they offer is really only an extension to an MDiv insofar as rigor and scholarship goes...anybody can get it and they don't have to work hard to do so. That said, this seminary's degree is seen as exactly that, just a little extension on your MDiv (depending on where you got it from.)

    I don't see the DMin as a worthwhile degree for graduate and post-graduate studies but certainly worthwhile for undergraduate work.
     
  4. swaimj

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    D.Min. guys should be able to teach in practicle areas such as homiletics and counseling if their degree is couples with experience. They probably should not be teaching theology or languages in an academic setting. Those subjects are for guys with Ph.Ds or Th. Ds. IMHO
     
  5. gb93433

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    A D.Min. is a 30 hr. degree. The PhD. is usually a 60+ hour degree.
     
  6. Rhetorician

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    gb reply

    gb,

    Just for the record, my D.Min. was 54 hrs (39 of which were PhD hrs @ a major university) and built on a 96 hr MDiv and a 42 hr Master of Arts in Religion.

    FYI!:wavey:

    sdg!

    rd
     
  7. Joseph M. Smith

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    I agree with those who stated that those with DMin possession (say that out loud!) can and should be considered for teaching practice courses. I am in that category, and teach Baptist Polity at Wesley Theological Seminary. But those courses which require depth in research are better handled by PhD folks, who have research skills and experience. As we worked toward adding a Baptist History and Identity course to the Wesley curriculum, I not only knew I would not be considered to teach it; I also made sure to take myself out of the pool, and ultimately the seminary selected the pastor I had suggested, who has a PhD in American Religious Studies from one of our area universities.

    It is not uncommon for seminaries to draw on people for practical experience who do not even have DMin degrees, but who have demonstrated a good theoretical underpinning as well as practical success.
     
  8. Martin

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    ==Universities, Colleges, Graduate schools? No. The DMin is not an academic degree and has not prepared the person for an academic/research position. This does not mean that they might not be a good teacher, it just means that I would not hire them in that position. I would want a PhD, ThD, or EdD (subject dependent).

    If they are being hired to teach seminary courses on ministry, preaching, etc, then I would hire them but only for those type courses.


    This is not meant to slam those who have only a DMin. They earned that degree and they should be proud of their work (not sinfully proud, I think you know what I mean). However the purpose of the DMin is not academic, it is ministerial. Now, if the person had a DMin and a EdD then I would allow them to teach academic courses since they had a teaching degree. I would strongly prefer, however, those with the PhD or ThD in the subject/field.
     
    #8 Martin, May 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2007
  9. StefanM

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    The DMin is a professional degree. Let's consider other professional degrees.

    Look at the Law School model:

    Most of the time, you'll find people with JDs teaching future JDs.

    Medical School model:

    Most of the time, MDs teaching future MDs.

    -------------------

    I consider a person with a DMin. to be in an equivalent situation. You would not generally hire a person with a J.D. to teach regular philosophy courses or an MD to be a professor of biology. However, you do hire them to teach their profession.

    For the Doctor of Ministry, that vocation is ministry. Therefore, I have no problem with a DMin teaching MDiv "ministry" courses (i.e. evangelism, preaching, etc.) or undergraduate ministry courses and basic-level survey courses. Depending on the MDiv concentration, they may be qualified to teach some undergraduate "academic" classes.

    To be completely honest, I'd rather have a DMin with several years of full-time ministry experience as a professor for a ministry class than a PhD who has gone straight from college to seminary to the classroom.
     
  10. Paul33

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    Yes! The U.S. Department of Education considers the D. Min. an academic research degree on par with the Ph.D. as opposed to professional degrees such as the J.D. or M.D.

    This is interesting, because many seminaries call the D.Min. degree a professional degree. But that is not the view of the USDE!

    For the record, I teach classes at a major Christian university in the areas of: Bible, Theology, Ethics, Business management, organizational theory, organizational health and growth, and U.S. history as an adjunct professor. My D.Min. is sufficient for all of these courses because I took management classes in seminary and my D.Min. is in historical theology with an emphasis on America's religious history.

    Seminaries, colleges, and grad schools typically require the right "union card" to teach, but the truth is many professors with the right card can't teach and shouldn't be teaching. We all know this.
     
    #10 Paul33, May 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2007
  11. Paul33

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  12. Alistercook

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    Wow, thanks for sharing this with us!
     
  13. Paul33

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    [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]
    Check this out! What is the one lone exception in this list?

    Degrees Awarded
    The recognized first-professional degrees are listed below together with the relevant field of study and the usual duration of accredited programs.
    Chiropractic--Doctor of Chiropractic (D.C. or D.C.M.), a curriculum divided into "straight" or "progressive" chiropractic depending upon the philosophy of the institution, generally requiring 3 academic years of full-time study after 2 years or more of study at the associate or bachelor's degree level.
    Dentistry--Doctor of Dental Science (D.D.S.) or Doctor of Medical Dentistry (D.M.D.), in either case a standard curriculum that generally requires 4 academic years of full-time study following either a bachelor's degree or early admission after 3 years of undergraduate study. It may be followed by an optional clinical specialization during an ensuing residency year or advanced research studies.
    Law--Juris Doctor (J.D.), a standard curriculum that generally requires 3 academic years of full-time study following a bachelor's degree. The curriculum is unspecialized; all students follow a similar program regardless of their career intentions. Specialization occurs later, either through apprenticeship and job-related training or advanced study.
    Medicine--Doctor of Medicine (M.D.), a standard allopathic medical curriculum generally requiring 4 academic years of full-time study following either a bachelor's degree or early admission after 3 years of undergraduate study. While the M.D. degree is awarded at the end of 4 years, virtually all students take a subsequent year of clinical internship followed by a supervised residency lasting 1-8 years (depending on the specialty) which is required for medical board certification.
    Optometry--Doctor of Optometry (O.D.), a standard curriculum generally requiring 4 academic years of full-time study following 2 or more years of undergraduate study.
    Osteopathy--Doctor of Ostepathy or Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.), a standard curriculum generally requiring 4 academic years of full-time study following either a bachelor's degree or early admission after 3 years of undergraduate study. (NOTE: Holders of the D.O. degree generally take a year of clinical internship and are eligible for some medical residencies.)
    Pharmacy--Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.), a standard curriculum generally requiring either 2 academic years of full-time study following a bachelor's degree or 4 years of study following transfer to a pharmacy program after 2 years of undergraduate study.
    Podiatry--Doctor of Podiatry (D.P., Pod.D.) or Podiatric Medicine (D.P.M.), in either case a standard curriculum generally requiring 4 academic years of full-time study following 2 or more years of undergraduate study.
    Theology--Master of Divinity (M.Div.) or Hebrew Letters (M.H.L.), Rav, usually standard curricula prescribed by the ordaining religious community and generally requiring 2-3 academic years of full-time study following a bachelor's degree. (NOTE: Only one U.S. institution, the Catholic University of America, holds a Pontifical charter and is authorized to award Papal degrees such as the Licentiate (Lic.).)
    Veterinary Medicine--Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (D.V.M.), a standard curriculum generally requiring 4 academic years of full-time study following either a bachelor's degree or early admission after 3 years of undergraduate study. It may be followed by an optional year or more of clinical specialization.
    The program lengths indicated may vary due to the practice of permitting well-prepared undergraduate students who meet all admissions requirements except that of holding an undergraduate degree to begin their professional studies while still undergraduates or without actually completing the bachelor's degree. Many professional programs have admissions agreements with undergraduate institutions that permit such options in exceptional cases. Often the bachelor's degree and the professional degree are both awarded at the completion of such dual programs. In other cases, the professional school itself offers a complete program of study that encompasses both the preliminary undergraduate work and the advanced professional study, or admits students into the professional program after a prescribed number of credits have been earned, and awards one degree (the first-professional degree) at the end of the entire program.
    [/SIZE][/FONT][​IMG]
    That's right. All other first professional degrees earn the recipient the right to be called doctor except for theology!
     
  14. gb93433

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    Where did you get your D. Min.?
     
  15. Rhetorician

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    gb Reply!

    I got my D.M. (see above hyperlink) @ The University of the South (Sewanee) School of Theology. It is one of the ultra liberal Episcopal schools.

    Or as they call it and as it is written on my diploma in Latin, "Universitas Meridiana."

    Why do you ask?

    sdg!:thumbs:

    rd
     
  16. PastorSBC1303

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    As someone who is currently working on a DMin, I would agree with this view. I think there should be a place for teaching in the practical areas, however it is probably best if the languages, theology, etc are handled by guys with PhD/ThDs.

    I decided on a DMin (in Expository Preaching from SBTS) because of its focus on ministry and because it has allowed me to continue serving in the field God has called me to for this time of my life.
     
  17. gb93433

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    I was curious because when I looked at the requirements for SWBTS (www.swbts.edu) they appeared to require only 30 hours.
     
    #17 gb93433, May 3, 2007
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  18. Rhetorician

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    gb Reply

    gb,

    I did 39 PhD hrs in Communication Theory and many aspects of Classical Rhetoric, Rhetorical Criticism, Comm Theory, Rhetoriograpahy, et al.

    Because of some life issues I could not finish the PhD program but wanted some sort of a doctorate. I got into the DMin program at Sewanee and they took the hrs. from the PhD but I only had to do 15 additional hrs in that program to get my degree. 39 + 15=54 total for both programs.

    I wrote a university/seminary quality dissertation in Christian (Roman Catholic) Thought & Rhetorical Criticism built on my course work in both doctoral programs, my MAR from Harding Grad School of Religion, and my MDiv from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. That is how I come by the 54 hr DMin.

    FYI!:thumbs:

    sdg!

    rd
     
  19. Paul33

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    My D.Min. was 46 credits coupled with an M.Div. of 96.

    I disagree with the above statement that a D.Min. is not sufficient for teaching theology or Bible.

    A doctorate in historical theology (revival, reform, renewal) is a doctorate no matter what letters one receives.

    Mine was in historical theology and it has opened up doors to teach at the university level. I am confident that I could also teach at the seminary level.
     
  20. StefanM

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    Allow me to add that I believe that a DMin in an academic subject would prepare a person for teaching that subject.

    Most DMins, though, are practical. For these DMins, practical issues should be the subject matter taught.
     

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