da Vinci's Can o' Worms

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. Phillip

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    I'll open up a good debate here. Has anybody read the da Vinci code? (This may be an old debate, but haven't seen much about it.)

    The reason I ask is that everybody seems to be spouting off about The Passion, while the entire United States is just as hooked on the da Vinci code and Ron Howard has agreed to direct the movie after a multi-million dollar movie deal was cut with Brown (the author).

    Let's have some discussion here, folks........
     
  2. Frogman

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    Never heard anything about it.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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  4. donnA

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    I don't know much about it. I did see the author on Good Morning America the day it was released. It sounded like an anti christian book. Is that so?
     
  5. UTEOTW

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    Someone gave me a copy of the book so I read it.

    I did not think it was a very good book. As far as the controversy, the book did have quite a few things that I would not agree with. Whether it was anti-Christian, I think that is hard to say. It certainly is a different view. To me, the worst thing was how he mixed in truths, half-truths, and flat out made up stuff. If it was all made up, it would not have been so bad because you could just accept it as the work of fiction it is. But instead, the waters are awfully muddy which could confuse many people.
     
  6. Frogman

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    But instead, the waters are awfully muddy which could confuse many people.
    Be careful brother, thems fightn' words round 'ere :D

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  7. Phillip

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    YOU DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS ANTI-CHRISTIAN? WERE YOU ASLEEP WHEN YOU READ IT???????????

    The book states the Holy Grail is the bones of Mary Magdeline who was Jesus' wife and they were found in France along with the relatives of Jesus and his wife who had children after he fainted on the cross. He never was the Son of God and da Vinci and all his crownies were parts of the Knights of Templar who knew about this con on the church (the Catholic church inthe book) and the Catholic church and the Knights of Templar had a deal cut to keep from revealing the truth.

    The book takes its so-called facts from an older book that is now back on the shelves, due to the popularity, called "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" which proclaims to be a "fact" book and promotes the theory and (according to it) provides proof that documents and things found in France prove this theory. They even produced a a man named St. Clair and his grand-son who are supposed to be the direct Holy Blood-line of Christ. They get into the missing "Feminine" part of the God-head. etc. etc.

    That my fellow Christians is the bottom line and yes, I read the book and was so stunned I could not believe it. It is and has been #2 on the New York times best sellers list and a movie deal has been struck and Ron Howard is going to direct the movie.

    Watch out AMERICA you haven't seen ANYTHING YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: [​IMG]
     
  8. Phillip

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    Bro. Dallas, you and I are going to have NO PROBLEMS agreeing on this one. I'm just shocked the Christian community has been asleep on this one because it is sweeeping America like a firestorm with lots of follow up books on the Knights of Templar legends, grail legends, etc. and it hasn't even become a movie yet. Just a novel. You say it and I'll agree as far as this book is concerned.......... [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  9. Phillip

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    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385504209/

    The book is a novel, but Brown bases it on the theories proposed in the older-non-fiction book Holy Blood, Holy Grail, presenting the theory of Mary Magdeline and Jesus being married and the blood line of Jesus being alive and well and living in Europe. Some under the name of St. Claire.

    The Holy Grail is "the cup of Christ" meaning "his wife", according to the theory.

    This book is being followed by many "look alikes" jumping on the conspiracy wagon that has kept the da Vinci code in the top of the best-seller's list for weeks.

    They all proclaim the same theory and legends.

    The former post about the book REALLY puts fear into me. There is NO CHANCE that the theory of Brown's may or may not be Christian oriented.
     
  10. Phillip

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    Are you sure your not a bit confused and not talking about one of those books about "the Bible code"? If you truly read the da Vinci Code, we have some major problems here. Surely, I hope this is really the case. Tell me so, please........ ;)
     
  11. Frogman

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    Oh, this must have circuited its way through the United Methodist. This is what my wife's family attend. Our sons spent the weekend with her grandparents and they came home talking about how Jesus had a girlfriend and it was Mary Magdalene, you know what this frog did...don't ya?

    Been gigged but not yet jigged.

    I still haven't heard of this, I will have to read the link you provide, but tomorrow, ok?

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  12. Phillip

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    Yep, you watch it get into the churches....

    In the picture of the last supper, John is painted as looking a little feminine. According to Brown, it is not John, but Mary who is seated next to Jesus, they are leaning away from each other and if you look at the picture in a certain way you can see a big M made up of Jesus and Mary together. He claims da Vinci was a member of the Knights of Templar who lived in the temple in Jerusalem for years (true) and dug up her bones and shipped them to Europe in secrecy. da Vinci was part of this secret organization that protected the secret of the "grail" (or the story and the bones) and he liked to paint things in his pictures that were "coded". Brown is good at taking smidgens of truth and running for miles with them. Holy Grail, Holy Blood, claims today's Masonic Lodge is part of this secret society that came from the Knights of Templar who were killed by the Catholic church because they held this "secret" that Christianity was false over their heads and kept them from making money (the Catholic church and Vatican). Still a wee bit of fact (the Catholics did kill a lot of the Knights of Templar) into major, major fiction. But, sadly, people are buying this hook-line and sinker. Very, Sad, indeed! [​IMG]
     
  13. Frogman

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    Ok, I know you said we would agree on this topic, but I must confess to you I do have an ivestigative nature. If it is ok with you. Your statements are beginning to look like mine concerning the Passion, that doesn't bother me, but I do really want to read something about this.

    Is there any link online? Would the book be in libraries yet?

    See, brother, I am not just being harsh on the Passion film, the way you feel about this book is exactly what I feel when I see the things related to that film.

    Hope you can understand that is why I have appeared to be so 'hard' against that movie.

    God Bless

    Bro. Dallas
     
  14. blackbird

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    Bro. Dallas!

    You can buy the book at Wally-World--I picked it up off the shelf, read a few pages, then put it back! I should have "stashed" it somewhere(so noone else could read it), I just didn't think about it at the time.

    The book is about as useless as a New York City phone book distributed to the residents of Tokyo!

    Your brother,
    David
     
  15. UTEOTW

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    Wow. Didn't realize I'd get blasted so for taking a position only halfway against the book. And yes, it was the right book.

    The reason I was ambiguous about whether it really was anti-Christian was a matter of intent. There is no doubt that what the characters have to say in the book goes against what we believe. The most damning thing I can remember is something about the early church being unsure of the deity of Christ until they could vote on it a few centuries later. I find that much worse than the Mary Magdeline part everyone focuses on. But intent. I am not sure that I personally found there to be malice on the part of the writer. If he was really being anti-Christian, I would have expected that. So that is why I was ambiguous on the matter. There certainly is enough there that you could make the case that he was, and I would not argue against you. But it is a level I am not going to advocate myself. Of course, it just may be that he is not a good enough writer for me to discern what he was realy going after. It is a fairly poorly written book.
     
  16. Phillip

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    I am not a good enough English scholar to know how well the book was written. I can say that I have friends who are and they are non-christian, one just LOVED the book and couldn't wait to get home each night to continue it. I can say that it is an easy "read", much like Grisham, who has honed his work to where you WANT to see what comes next. The only real problem I saw "technically" with the story are the weak characters. He did a poor job in making his characters "real".

    I honestly cannot see WHY you did not understand that it was so anti-christian. Come on now.
    * The Catholic church sending out "hit-men" to keep the grail secret?
    * Mary Magdeline marrying Jesus after he FAINTED on the cross?
    * Jesus having a living blood-line.
    * The statements throughout the book that Jesus was not the Son of God "after all", but was the lineage of King David and therefore the Saint-Claire blood-line has been kept pure from king david until now and it is still a Holy blood-line because it is the lineage of ancient KINGS.
    * The on-going stories told about the Knight's Templar holding the secret that christianity wasn't real over the Catholic churches head for hundreds of years.

    Uh, what part of this did you have a problem understanding how it related to Christianity in a negative way?
    :confused:
     
  17. Phillip

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    I was trying to locate some common ground between us. You are comparing apples and oranges and I'll go ahead and open a new topic for that. Let's leave this one for discussion of the da Vinci Code alone. :D
     
  18. UTEOTW

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    A page turner, yes. Very much like a Grisham book in that regard. Of course after a few Grishams, I decided I had had enough. Tried to read another a few years later and could not stomach it. But that's my opinion. Millions love his books. But I think the average Grisham book is much better written than this thing was. Again, just my opinion. Millions love a page turner. Many would likely think the things I read are no good.

    Closer to topic, as I said, I can see how you have your opinion. And I think there is enough information available to support your position and so I will not argue against it. You are not stretching anything. I am personally fence sitting when it comes to whether it was meant to be anti-Christian. There are many things that go against what we believe. There is definately an undercurrent against a specific conservative wing of the Catholic Church. But it also a work of fiction and does not pretend to be anything else. From what I remember, at the front of the book was a note that the ceremonies and art work were accurately described and that Opus Dei was real. He specifically makes those claims at the beginning but I do not remember him taking the opportunity to claim that the rest was real. Maybe I do not remember correctly. Since he put that page in at the beginning, I would feel a lot more confident of his intent if he had claimed the other was true, also. As is, to have taken the time to claim that part was true but to have not made the claim for the controversial part, I'll take it at face value as a work of fiction. But I see clearly why it bothers you.
     
  19. rsr

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    Dallas, here are some links at Christianity Today:

    DAVINCI CODE
     
  20. Frogman

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    I was trying to locate some common ground between us. You are comparing apples and oranges and I'll go ahead and open a new topic for that. Let's leave this one for discussion of the da Vinci Code alone. :D </font>[/QUOTE]yes, of course. I only posted this to let you know that I cannot comment upon it without having some knowledge of the source itself. And I only referenced the other as I believe it pertained to an earlier post which stated since I had not seen the other, I could not comment upon it in either regard. (I don't know if that post was yours or not).

    Just making it clear that I do know a little about apples and oranges, if you want to discuss those items :D But I desire a little more knowledge of this book.

    I am already viewed in a low opinion regarding the other topic perhaps by some, and I do not wish to add salt to that opinion by offering a negative reveiw of this book without any knowledge of it.

    I am not saying your assessment and posts concerning are wrong, you obviously have researched this topic, I have not, since this is true, I reserve myself from being so outspoken against it.

    I promise, I will research this topic. I will also say that without doing that, though I could not know as much as you, I do have confidence in the statements you have made regarding this book.

    Now, about those apples/oranges.... ;)

    God Bless

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     

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