Daily Reading the KJV1611 Edition

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Ed Edwards, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. Ed Edwards

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    Matthew 1:11 (KJV1611 Edition):
    And ||Iosias begate Iechonias and his brethren,
    about the time they were caried away to Babylon.

    Margin note: || Some read, Iosias begate Iakim,
    and Iakim begat Iechonias


    This margin note, the first Translater Margin Note
    in the New Testament, shows an alternate reading
    found the multiple witnesses called collectively 'the
    Textus Receptus' (TRs) or the Received Texts.

    Matthew 1:11 (KJV1611 Edition, alternate TR reading):
    And Iosias begate Iakim, and Iakim begat Iechonias
    and his brethren, about the time they were caried away to Babylon.
     
  2. robycop3

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    ?

    Perhaps you or someone else can tell me if "Iosias" is the Greek or Aramaic form of Josiah", or "Esaias" is the Greek or Aramaic form of Isaiah.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    From Crosswalk.com at:

    http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...atthew+1:11&section=0&version=kjv&language=en




    [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The King James Version (Authorized) [​IMG][/FONT][​IMG][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Matthew 1 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:11And Josias F1 begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]FOOTNOTES:
    F1: Josias...: some read, Josias begat Jakim, and Jakim begat Jechonias
    [/FONT]
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    Previous item corrected:

     
  5. Ed Edwards

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    Isaiah 32:7-8 (KJV1611 Edition):
    The instruments also of the churle are euill:
    he deuiseth wicked deuices,
    to destroy the poore with lying wordes,
    euen when the needie speaketh right.
    Isa 32:8 But the liberall deuiseth liberall things,
    and by liberall things shall hee stand
    .

    Oops - what is a 'churle' and how is the 'liberall'
    different from that 'churle'?

    Isaiah 32:7-8 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
    7 The scoundrel's weapons are destructive;
    he hatches plots to destroy the needy with lies,
    and by charging the poor during a judgment.
    8 But a noble person plans noble things;
    he stands up for noble causes
    .

    Note here 'liberal' is NOT equal to 'un-Conservative' :)
     
  6. Ed Edwards

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    Isa 14:12 (KJV1611 Edition):

    How art thou fallen from heauen, ||O Lucifer, sonne of the morning?
    how art thou cut downe to the ground, which didst weaken the nations?


    Error Doctrine:

    The name is 'Lucifer', his role is Lead Devil, his title is
    'Satan' (the accuser).


    Margin note: ||OR, O day-
    starre.


    This shows that what is being compared here is the King of Bayblon
    and the planet Venus, AKA /also known as/: Day Star,
    Morning Star, Evening Star (according to when seen in the sky).

    Blows that doctrine right down the tubes.
    We don't know the name of Satan What'shisname, the Lead Devil.
     
  7. Ed Edwards

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    Sirach 18:10 (KJV1611 Edition):
    As a drop of water vnto the Sea,
    and a grauell stone in comparison of the sand,
    so are a thousand yeeres to the dayes of eternitie.

    Last verse of AMAZING GRACE:

    When we've been there ten thousand years
    Bright, shinging as the sun,
    We've no less days to sing God's praise
    Then when we first begun
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    2 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Yee are not straitened in vs,
    but yee are straitned in your owne bowels.


    Say what?
    What should I do next week different than last week
    because of what this scripture says?
    Actually, a better question is:
    What does this scritpure say?

    BTW, if we wanted to committ a Riplingerism we
    would say:
    The KJV1769 has added two more 'bowels',
    the KJV1611 Edition has 37 'bowels'; the KJV1769
    Edition has 39 'bowels'.


    English Standard Version
    2 Corinthians3:12 (ESV = English Standard Version)
    Since we have such a hope, we are very bold,

    Philemon 1:20 (KJV1611):
    Yea, brother, let mee haue ioy of thee in the Lord:
    refresh my bowles in the Lord.

    'Bowels' appears 8 times in the KJV1611 Edition
    and 9 times in the KJV1769 edition. Why has
    the KJV1769 added the word 'bowles'?
    'Bowles' is spelled wrong in the KJV1611 Edition:
    'bowles' should be 'bowels'.


    [/B]
     
    #8 Ed Edwards, Jul 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2006
  9. Keith M

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    Ed, I did an online search and the results were a bit diferent than what you quoted. The point is that there are certainly difference between the 1611 KJV and the 1769 KJV.

    I searched the word "bowles" in the 1611 KJV. There are 19 occurrences, along with 40 ocurrences of "bowels." A search of the 1769 KJV returned 42 occurrences of the word "bowels" and no occurrences of "bowles." Even with the difference in spellings, there is a large difference between 59 and 42.

    This absolutely blows out of the water the KJVO argument that both the 1611 and the 1769 are the same. Apparently by 1769 the spelling had become standardized, but that doesn't account for the fact that either the 1611 adds the word 17 times or else the 1769 omits the word 17 times. Wonder which it is?

    I'll give a rundown of the various passages in another thread.

    :laugh: :thumbs: :type:
     
    #9 Keith M, Jul 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2006
  10. Keith M

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    Apparently those differences are not what was first thought, Ed. See the thread "1611 KJV vs. 1769 KJV - bowels, bowles & bowls" for clarification.
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    Reading from Judith 9

    Judith 9:12-13 (KJV1611 Edition):
    I pray thee, I pray thee, O God of my father, and God
    of the inheritance of Israel, Lord of the heauens, and earth,
    creator of the waters, king of euery creature: heare thou my prayer:

    13 And make my speech and deceit to be their wound & stripe,
    who haue purposed cruell things against thy couenant,
    and thy hallowed house, and against the top of Sion,
    and against the house of the possession of thy children.

    Judith's pray is that her 'deceit' will be made a wound to
    her enemies. What does 'deceit' mean in this context?
     
    #11 Ed Edwards, Jul 17, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2006
  12. Ed Edwards

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    Ecc 10:12 (KJV1611 Edition)
    The words of a wise mans mouth are gratious:
    but the lips of a foole will swallow vp himselfe.
    13 The beginning of the words of his mouth
    is foolishnesse: and the end of his talke is mischieuous madnesse.
    14 A foole also is full of words; a man
    cannot tell what shall be; and what shall bee
    after him who can tell him?



    Ecc 10:12-14 (KJV1769 Edition):
    The words of a wise man's mouth are gracious; F34
    but the lips of a fool will swallow up himself.
    13 The beginning of the words of his mouth
    is foolishness: and the end of his talk F35 is mischievous madness.
    14 A fool also is full F36 of words: a man
    cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be
    after him, who can tell him?

    F34: gracious: Heb. grace
    F35: his talk: Heb. his mouth
    F36: is full...: Heb. multiplieth words

    1. On the last line, after 'him' the KJV1769 Edition
    has added to the Bible a comma (,).

    2. /left as an exercise for the student/

    How many variations do you find this 1769 Edition copy
    which included the Translator footnotes?
    The paper KJV1611 Edition had margin notes, but my electronic
    version of the KJV1611 Edition doesn't.
     
  13. Deacon

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    The question mark didn't always look like it does today.
    In its early history it appeared as a point with a curved line written slanting upward to the right above it.
    This can been seen in the KJV/1611 edition.

    ECCLESIASTES 10:14 (KJV/1611)

    Rob
     
  14. Ed Edwards

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  15. Ed Edwards

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    Ecc 3:1,7 (KJV1611 Edition):

    Ecc 3:1 To euery thing there is a season,
    and a time to euery purpose vnder the heauen.
    7. A time to rent, and a time to sow:
    a time to keepe silence, and a time to speake.

    Ecc 3:1,7 (KJV1769 Edition):

    1 To every thing there is a season,
    and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    7. A time to rend, and a time to sew;
    a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

    What is 'rent' the past tense of 'rend'?
     
  16. Keith M

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    Re: Today's reading from the 1611 KJV

    Ed, this is yet another fine example of the 1769 KJV revision having a better word than the original 1611 KJV had.

    Strong's defines the Hebrew qara as "To tear, tear in pieces." The definition also includes the English word "rend." In 1611 "rent" was the past tense of "rend." Even taking this into account, the 1611's use of "rent" would show a past tense, but that is apparently not right according to the rest of the verse and the surrounding verses. None of the surrounding verses in the context are in the past tense, so it is apparently wrong to translate this verse n the past tense.
     
  17. Ed Edwards

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    Mat 23:24 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Ye blind guides, which straine at a gnat,
    and swallow a camel.


    Mat 23:24 (KJV1769 Edition with Strong's numbers):
    Ye blind5185 guides,3595 which strain1368 at a gnat,2971
    and1161 swallow2666 a camel.2574

    Strong's says of the G1368 Entry:

    "to strain out. (“strain at” is probably by misprint.)"

    I.E. Strong's notes that 'strain at' is an error
    and the correct translation is 'strain out'.

    The NIV is right:
    New International Version
    Matthew 23:24 (NIV):
    You blind guides! You strain out
    a gnat but swallow a camel.

    Earlier English versions had it right such as this 1587 Edition:

    Mat 23:24 (Geneva Bible):
    Ye blinde guides, which straine out a gnat,
    and swallowe a camell.
     
  18. Ed Edwards

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    Proverbs 27:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Oyntment and perfume reioyce the heart: so doeth
    the sweetnesse of a mans friend by heartie counsell.

    The KJV1769 corrects the spelling of 'heartie' as
    'hearty'. Of course, the Geneva Bible of 1587 also
    spelled the word 'hearty'. Somehow I feel there is
    something more than 'spelling' going on here???

    Proverbs 27:9 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):

    Oil and incense bring joy to the heart,
    and the sweetness of a friend is better than self-counsel.

    Pro 27:9 (KJV1769 Edition with Strong's numbers):
    Ointment8081 and perfume7004 rejoice8055 the heart:3820
    so doth the sweetness4986 of a man's friend7453
    by hearty counsel.4480, 6098, 5315

    The term translated 'hearty' or 'heartie' is:
    H5315
    נפשׁ
    nephesh
    neh'-fesh
    From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal
    or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated
    or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast,
    body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented,
    X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of)
    life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own,
    person, pleasure,
    (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves,
    + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
     
  19. AresMan

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    Straing out/at a gnat

    Ed, are you straining out/at a gnat? :p
     
  20. Keith M

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    Strain at/out

    Ed, possibly the word "at" found in the 1611 KJV was a misprint. If so, the same error carried over into the 1769 KJV. However, it seems most English versions prior to 1611 got it right.

    And even post-1611 17th century translations seem to have had it right.

    I also like this rendering which totally avoided the at/out issue even before the debate got started.

     

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