Dallas FBC cuts funds to BGCT

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by rsr, Dec 7, 2002.

  1. rsr

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    No big surprise here, given the affiliation of Criswell College with the Southern Baptists of Texas, but the meltdown continues.

    http://www.abpnews.com/abpnews/story.cfm?newsId=3370

    http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=14732

    BTW, the switch in funding is mostly symbolic:

    [ December 07, 2002, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  2. Speedpass

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    I am not suprised by this. I am sure that if W A Criswell were still with us today, he would be extremely pleased.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    ...and George Truett would be deeply ashamed.

    The "switch" is no surprise and no loss since FBC Dallas only gave a token amount to send messengers to the BGCT conventions.
     
  4. rsr

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    I'm not sure it means nothing, although obviously the financial impact is negligible.

    FBC Dallas -- the church of Truett and Criswell -- still carries a lot of influence, especially because it has its own college. It certainly makes the battle lines clearer.

    FBC Oklahoma City -- the church of Herschel Hobbs -- left the SBC, but not the local association or the BGCO. Of course, OKC First didn't carry the same weight because it was left behind is size and influece (after Hobbs) many years ago. But it certainly demarked the issues.

    BTW, how does having two state conventions affect the associations? Do SBTC and BGCT churches participate in the same associations, or has (sadly) the association ceased to exist as a real entity as it has elsewhere?
     
  5. Speedpass

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    I remember reading in a recent edition of the Southern Baptist Texan, the SBTC's paper, that there is a North Texas Baptist Association consisting entirely of SBTC supporting churches. IIRC, this association was formed after the SBTC.
     
  6. American Citizen

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    ...and George Truett would be deeply ashamed.

    The "switch" is no surprise and no loss since FBC Dallas only gave a token amount to send messengers to the BGCT conventions.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I think George Truett would be more ashamed that more Texas churches have not stood up to the BGCT.

    I used to be a member some years ago at the North Fort Worth Baptist Church. Can you tell me what their stand is in all of this?
     
  7. Rev. G

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  8. Speedpass

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    North Fort Worth Baptist Church--wasn't that where Jim Futral was pastor before he became Executive Director of the Mississippi Baptist Convention? I remember hearing Dr Futral preach in 1985.
     
  9. rsr

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    As to North Fort Worth Baptist, its Web site lists an interim pastor, and its links page has the BGCT but not the SBTC.

    http://www.nfwbc.org/index.htm
     
  10. American Citizen

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    Jimmy, I am not sure about the pastor you mention. I was a member there several years ago when D.L. Lowrie was pastor. The church was in a different location back then.
     
  11. Baptist Believer

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    :rolleyes:

    George Truett resisted the antics of J. Frank Norris of First Baptist Fort Worth and helped keep fundamentalism from taking over the Baptist General Convention of Texas and the Southern Baptist Convention. I doubt he would feel the way you think he would.

    I don't know. I used to know someone who was a member there, but I've lost touch.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    We were a part of FBC in the mid 80's, when Dr. Criswell was still Pastor. He loved the SBC, Baylor, etc and put up with the liberalism [er, moderate] in each. Started Criswell College for a conservative alternative to Baylor is indicative of his mood.

    I feel he would be saddened by the encroaching liberalism [er, moderate] in the state convention and would welcome alignment with the conservative movement.

    The conservative resurgence within the SBC seminaries would also get a "thumbs up".
     
  13. Baptist Believer

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    Dr. Criswell and Dr. Truett had very different ideas about such things. Criswell was very happy with the "conservative resurgence" but I doubt Dr. Truett would have been.
     
  14. Speedpass

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    Isn't that the D.L.Lowrie who was a pastor of a large church in Lubbock?
     
  15. TomVols

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    It is grossly misleading to equate J.Frank Norris with the conservatives of today in the SBC. It is equally misleading to say that Dr. Truett would be displeased with the conservatives of today. Dr. Truett was a champion of Biblical fidelity and authority, positions that most moderate/liberal baptists loathe.
     
  16. Baptist Believer

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    I did not directly equate them. I did say that Truett battled the primary manifestation of fundamentalism of his day, J. Frank Norris. Like it or not, Norris was one of the primary leaders of the Baptist fundamentalist movement in the first half of the 20th century. He was far more extreme than most and, in my opinion, a sociopath who committed arson on his church building and his home as well as murdered a man in his study (he shot an unarmed man named Dexter Chipps in his church study four times (one shot missed) in "self-defense" while Chipps was running for the door).

    But the movement that Norris energized is at the root of the so-called "conservative resurgence" of the SBC. Certainly the two are different, but the "conservative resurgence" used some of the same tactics that Norris used so many years ago in Texas. Texas dealt with fundamentalism and smear campaigns many years before Pressler-Patterson started their takeover, so Texas Baptists knew the difference. It's no wonder the Baptist General Convention of Texas did not fall to the "resurgence".

    You've made a baseless slander of "most moderate/liberals" in your last sentence. I think Truett would have seen through this kind of rhetoric. But this is not the time or place for these kind of accusations or responses.

    [ December 13, 2002, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]
     
  17. American Citizen

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    Isn't that the D.L.Lowrie who was a pastor of a large church in Lubbock?</font>[/QUOTE]Yes, he was then and I am sure now a tremendous preacher.
     
  18. American Citizen

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    I did not directly equate them. I did say that Truett battled the primary manifestation of fundamentalism of his day, J. Frank Norris. Like it or not, Norris was one of the primary leaders of the Baptist fundamentalist movement in the first half of the 20th century. He was far more extreme than most and, in my opinion, a sociopath who committed arson on his church building and his home as well as murdered a man in his study (he shot an unarmed man named Dexter Chipps in his church study four times (one shot missed) in "self-defense" while Chipps was running for the door).

    But the movement that Norris energized is at the root of the so-called "conservative resurgence" of the SBC. Certainly the two are different, but the "conservative resurgence" used some of the same tactics that Norris used so many years ago in Texas. Texas dealt with fundamentalism and smear campaigns many years before Pressler-Patterson started their takeover, so Texas Baptists knew the difference. It's no wonder the Baptist General Convention of Texas did not fall to the "resurgence".

    Baptist Believer, I am not a follower of Norris nor do I admire things that he did. When we talk about fundamentalism we need to define it. If you are talking about theology, then I am a fundamentalist. If you are using it to describe an attitude then that is another. I think the attitude that Norris demonstrated is more the attitude of say the "Mainstream Movement" then it is of present day conservatives.

    [ December 13, 2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: American Citizen ]
     

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